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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#371

Post by surgical_fire »

philipallstar wrote: post #120
somewhatgoated wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it comes down to who you would trust more - your own government which you have some control over via elections or some (potentially multinational) corporation which you have exactly zero control over?

It's the other way around. You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly if they are bad. You have very, very coarse-grained control with the government every few years.

> You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly

Oh yeah?

Please enlihhten me, how exactly can I switch providers from the Visa/Mastercard duopoly?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#372

Post by smirnoff_s »

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

One thing that surprises me a lot is that in order to use Wero with my ING account, I have to give access to my contacts, which I ultimately am not going to do. I wonder how the European payment system can be so ignorant of their customers' privacy.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#373

Post by philipallstar »

amelius wrote: post #308
philipallstar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine.

> That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine. If you ever had your account blocked by Apple or Google, you know exactly why a government is the better option. At least you have the rule of law on your side. Big companies are the authoritarian situation, not the government.

[flagged]

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#374

Post by Tehnix »

al_borland wrote: post #193

What does this mean for travel if Visa is not “everywhere you want to be”? I can’t tell if this is going to replace Visa/Mastercard or be offered in addition to Visa/Mastercard to handle transactions for locals while still allowing transactions to be viable for everyone else who might be passing through.

I don't see a way it wouldn't be offered in addition to. Some EU countries (e.g. Denmark) already do something similar where we a national debit card called "DanKort" (mashup of "Danmark" and "Kort" which translates to "Denmark" and "Card"). It typically also has a VISA part to it for usage abroad.

All stores accept this as well as VISA/Mastercard since they want to maximize who they can get money for, so it's already a common place practice for payment terminals to do this. Tourism alone is enough of a reason you would accept VISA/Mastercard still.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#375

Post by philipallstar »

ambicapter wrote: post #151
philipallstar wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the other way around. You have choice with a company, and people can switch provider very quickly if they are bad. You have very, very coarse-grained control with the government every few years.

Agree to disagree. Lock-in is a thing that companies design for.

And a government is pre-locked in.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#376

Post by [deleted] »

rozap wrote: post #337
sschueller wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust my government (Switzerland) way more to do the thing that is right for the people and the law then some private company that has the primary goal of making money. It doesn't mean that governments don't make mistakes but the primary goal is to serve its people. That is what government is for in a functioning democracy. A functioning government is of the people for the people.

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#377

Post by locknitpicker »

OptionOfT wrote: post #368
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

What about authentication? I remember living in Belgium this was the case, and I always had to go and find that stupid physical barcode reader that I then had to hold against the screen, sign in with my debit card, PIN, enter the Euro amount, and then sign the transaction. Now that I live in the USA, I have my credit card number in Bitwarden, with expiration date and CVC. When I want to buy something, I let it autofi…

> I remember living in Belgium this was the case, and I always had to go and find that stupid physical barcode reader that I then had to hold against the screen, sign in with my debit card, PIN, enter the Euro amount, and then sign the transaction.

I can't talk about Belgium but from what I've read, the dutch iDeal system requires nothing of the sort. It seems to act as a broker between your bank and the business, and a user's input is limited to pick the bank you use and approve the payment through your bank's app.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#378

Post by hirako2000 »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #92
hirako2000 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact a unique payment ID (e.g QR) to "push" payment is even safer. No redirect. That's how payment should be. Not an authorization given to pull from us, but the agency for us to push the amount.

If I am understanding you correct, isn't this what UPI does already?

Yes. Common among Asian countries. Where authorizing a 3rd party to pull money isn't natural. Among the main reasons Uber failed there.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#379

Post by vanviegen »

jorisw wrote: post #349
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

I'm just not sure this directly competes with MC/Visa the way the article suggests. Didn't other EU countries already have something similar to iDEAL, as opposed to using credit cards? And now we're just consolidating them? Also, isn't this just about online payments? Who's going to pay for a coffee with either Wero or a credit card? AFAIK most EU consumers use direct debit cards for in-store payments (those countrie…

> At any rate, I don't see EuroPA or Wero break the 'hegemony' of Visa/MC the way this article claims.

You're right, it does not. But it's a significant step towards that goal. In-store payments are next on the agenda.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#380

Post by BadBadJellyBean »

piva00 wrote: post #44
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Wero was a real alternative but it seem to be a thin wrapper around Bank APIs and SEPA instant transactions. It has pretty much non of the functionality that PayPal or other services give. It just makes it easier to send money with a phone number instead of an IBAN. My bank doesn't even support it.

Isn't a wrapper making the ergonomics better valuable enough? In Sweden we have Swish for domestic transfers, if I could use Swish (or if Wero took it over) the same way to transfer money to my friends living in other EU countries I'd be very, very happy. What kind of functionality PayPal offers that is much better? Using cards instead of direct debit?

I don't think it is. If you want people to move, you need to give them something. And SEPA but with phone numbers isn't it. At least not for me. Especially if it means that I am dependent on whether my bank implemented it.

I have recently seen people surprised when they sent a Wero transaction and the other party could see their IBAN.

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