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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#261

Post by Keyframe »

lxgr wrote: post #176
Keyframe wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

geopolitics, dollar, and then network effect. in that order.

What bearing does the dollar have on any of this exactly?

What do you mean? How it cannot? In Europe's context, 60's and 70's, was a collection of fractured dozens of small countries each with its own currency. US had a single currency which was also world's reserve currency so every major bank on this planet already had to build technical and legal pipelines to handle global trade. On top of that you had US omnipresence in post WW2 Europe and world for that matter. American payment networks were the fastest and obvious place to build payment networks across all those borders which was then also a footing ground into intra-market payments. As I said - geopolitics, dollar, network effect in that order. Can't have one without the other.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#262

Post by BurningFrog »

functionmouse wrote: post #238
SomeUserName432 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. You lack the inherent fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor protection that Visa/Mastercard provides. Bought something online and didn't receive your product? With PIX you're SOL, with Visa/Mastercard you get a chargeback.

Yes, but it's a statistically negative sum game for the customer. Visa wouldn't offer such a service if they weren't winning out in the long run, collecting rent on every one of your purchases.

You're describing the concept of insurance.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#263

Post by rwke »

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

I recommend also have a look at how eCommerce is done in Chile, e.g. Transbank (WebPay), FinToc and others. Chile passed some very good FinTech legislation a few years ago.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#264

Post by jbarber »

tiffanyh wrote: post #90

Dumb question for those EU folks ... How do you use this when paying online? Is there the equivalent of an "Apple Pay" button on merchant website for those based in EU? (Or a Pix button, when in Brazil, etc?)

In Portugal there's often a "MB Way" payment option - which AFAICT is the PT version of these other systems.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#265

Post by Hamuko »

kccqzy wrote: post #64
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

There is a 3DSecure system for existing Visa, Mastercard, and American Express. After typing your card numbers, the transaction doesn’t immediately go through but you are also redirected to the bank’s system. Banks can ask you to use a hardware token, an app, or any other second factor to approve the transaction. It’s a shame that this system isn’t ubiquitous for the rest of us not in EU.

This is pretty much every payment I do in Finland works. Always have to go and verify it using my online banking credentials after I've entered the numbers. Does make me wonder why I need to bother with the whole number, expiry and CVV bullshit anyway.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#266

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

And1 wrote: post #78

Love to see it. When Canada legalized weed in 2018, the US administration made it clear that they can ban Canadians from the US for life if they have used marijuana in the past. The administration alluded to looking at Canadian's transaction history to facilitate cracking down on this more harshly[1]. It was so clear at that point to me how badly sovereign payments and banking is so needed. FATCA is a thing, I get it…

Like American DUIs?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#267

Post by gloosx »

moralestapia wrote: post #208
philipallstar wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine.

Brazil is on the West, fyi.

on the West of what? Culturally and historically it's a Western country, yes, but politically and economically it's an Eastern country – founding member of BRICS and a developing economy. I think the author of the parent comment used "Western" term referring to ideological and economic grouping

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#268

Post by 1234letshaveatw »

Waterluvian wrote: post #131
And1 wrote: post #78

Love to see it. When Canada legalized weed in 2018, the US administration made it clear that they can ban Canadians from the US for life if they have used marijuana in the past. The administration alluded to looking at Canadian's transaction history to facilitate cracking down on this more harshly[1]. It was so clear at that point to me how badly sovereign payments and banking is so needed. FATCA is a thing, I get it…

One silver lining of the current U.S. regime's behaviour is how it's forcing us to move out of the local minima of over-Americanization that we've been stuck in for too long.

Does the same sentiment apply to TN1 visas? Funny how you never see those burned in protest

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#269

Post by bux93 »

mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

Wero is super confusing. They're in the business of acquiring different methods (I don't even know if they always buy them outright or if they merge or they are just associated in some way), branding them ALL wero, and announcing that every payment in every channel will be rolled out SOON via wero, without ever offering specifics.

So in The Netherlands wero is the new name of eCommerce payments, but in another country the new name for peer2peer. But no idea when p2p will launch in the Netherlands or when eCommerce will launch elsewhere. And if the existing services will be degraded when they are internationalized or merged.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#270

Post by swiftcoder »

Xirdus wrote: post #86
kccqzy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 3DSecure system for existing Visa, Mastercard, and American Express. After typing your card numbers, the transaction doesn’t immediately go through but you are also redirected to the bank’s system. Banks can ask you to use a hardware token, an app, or any other second factor to approve the transaction. It’s a shame that this system isn’t ubiquitous for the rest of us not in EU.

The problem with 3D Secure is that the merchant can unilaterally decide not to use it, which defeats the whole purpose of 3D Secure.

> the merchant can unilaterally decide not to use it

If they do so, they are telling the card issuer that they are happy to be on the hook for chargebacks/fraud. It's not an decision without consequences

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