Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

openai.com

161–170 of 198 posts

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#161
post #154
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use the verification tool to check whether the watermark is still detectable and iterate until you successfully removed it . Of course if you need to regenerate the image with an unwatermarked image-generation model to remove it, it more or less still serves its purpose.

How confident are you that the verification tool detects all of the watermark, and not just one layer? I would layer two watermarks and let the public remove the most visible one.

What good does a totally imaginary AI watermark that'll never be revealed to the public even do?

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it's not useful. I've already seen posts online that were able to be proven as falsified because someone ran the images through Google for SynthID checks. > How old is photoshop and why is it exempt? For one, it's not developed by Google or OpenAI. The barrier to entry to making realistic but deceptive images with Photoshop is far higher than with AI, and there are al…

So 999 people that are just making an image need to be DRM'ed so that you might catch the 1 person making "realistic but deceptive" images... like this is some kind of special case of ... internet images.

> So 999 people that are just making an image need to be DRM'ed so that you might catch the 1 person making "realistic but deceptive" images

Unfortunately, simple statistics mean that you will get a lot more people than just "1" creating disinformation with AI assistance.

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#163
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at twitter or Facebook and seen the swaths of our population that are just fully believing fake AI slop about politics, crime, etc?

Most of those people wont be checking the provenance of the images. FB have stopped from their fact-checking processes. Only the investigative or journalistically inclined will make use of this, and those people already fact check. Where’s the en mass gain?

There's a world where all the big platforms automatically flag AI images thanks to SnythID and other techniques. The more ubiquitous it is the easier it will be for them to make that a reality.

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#164
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How confident are you that the verification tool detects all of the watermark, and not just one layer? I would layer two watermarks and let the public remove the most visible one.

What good does a totally imaginary AI watermark that'll never be revealed to the public even do?

It might not be intended for the public.

Similar to your printer fingerprinting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there other politicians? Do disgruntled employees have bosses? Ex partners? A national news story in the US tonight, Lyft driver caught faking photos of his messy car. Not the most intelligent fraudster as he left the Gemini logo on the corner of the image. Providing these four examples in good faith :) also generally I _dislike_ DRM

Against MILLLIONS of legitimate uses which you don't seem to care to protect? You should also think about whether, suddenly, courts can now trust images they see because this technology exists? I think thats not even basically plausible.

What are some of the millions of legitimate use cases that are harmed by having metadata added to generated images? It's funny you mention Photoshop because that software also adds metadata to jpeg images that it creates. Is the difference here that the SynthID is hidden and can't be removed?

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#166
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How confident are you that the verification tool detects all of the watermark, and not just one layer? I would layer two watermarks and let the public remove the most visible one.

What good does a totally imaginary AI watermark that'll never be revealed to the public even do?

You can reveal it later when you come up with a new mechanism and out all the fake images. Basically the first layer is first defence, second layer is cleanup when releasing a new mechanism. That way your generated images will always be identifiable eventually.

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#167
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it wouldn't. ContentID is already used by Google for that exact purpose. They appear to be fully in favor of enforcing IP law provided the owning party raises a complaint.

ContentID is generated internally by Google and you have to qualify (aka be able to threaten Google with lawyers) in order to effectively participate. It also seems to be defeatable by such advanced techniques as flipping the video left to right. If SynthID works, this would allow people to tag their own videos with a watermark that is invariant across various levels of compression and editing. It would enable automa…

Fair point about the lopsidedness of the ContentID program.

Class action? Wouldn't you first have to attempt to follow the official process, filing a DMCA request? And I assume that Google would likely respect that since (unless I'm uninformed) it seems like they typically have so far? I really don't see how this escalates in a way that leaves Google at fault.

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have missed the point by such a wide margin that I have to wonder if it wasn't intentional. The same techniques used here can be applied in other domains for other purposes. That would not "defeat its only purpose". The danger is the normalization of watermarking for [ insert good reason here ] with regulation eventually making it mandatory once everyone is accustomed to it. Rinse and repeat to gradually boil the…

you're the one missing the point: why would this technique be used for any of those? the comment you're replying to describes both the incentives to not do that and existing technology that would be more effective for what you imagine and yeah exactly printers already watermark, why would they need synthid

> describes both the incentives to not do that

It's a bogus claim (as I previously stated). Applying the same technique in another domain or for a different purpose does not defeat the original purpose for which a technique was developed. People can do both things.

No one said anything about printers using synthid. The modernized variant (at least one of them) would apply to digital media produced by the end user.

Although since you asked, if the synthid watermarking scheme is more resilient to transformations and conversions than the current one then switching might prove useful.

Re: OpenAI Adopts Google's SynthID Watermark for AI Images with Verification Tool

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't matter, neither does a watermark.

and you need the watermark to tell you the fish with the mustache is fake... What image is going to change your worldview so radically that the drm saves you? edit - to be clear you are watermarking 100,000 fishes with mustaches because of your concern over 1 image that "matters" (and you don't even have an image that matters in mind)

Instead of giving you just one image "that matters", here's several that I found after a quick internet search that you can do too if you want more examples:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/openai-sora-realis...

https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-elections...

It doesn't extend to just photos, but videos too:

https://x.com/shellenberger/status/2056764907262247356

Post reply on HN