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Google changes its search box

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641–650 of 961 posts

Re: Google changes its search box

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't entirely true, because they use more than one search index.

The other search indexes are largely negligible in comparison: [0] > This is not a competitive market. It is a monopoly with a distant second place. > The search index is irreplaceable infrastructure. Building a comparable one from scratch is like building a parallel national railroad. Microsoft spent roughly $100 billion over 20 years on Bing and still holds single-digit share. If Microsoft cannot close the gap, no…

Thanks for searching the source. It sounds to me like they are _not_ using Google nor Bing directly:

> With Google and Bing, we failed - not for lack of trying.

> Bing: Their terms didn't work for us from the start. Microsoft's terms prohibited reordering results or merging them with other sources - restrictions incompatible with Kagi's approach. In February 2023, they announced price increases of up to 10x on some API tiers. Then in May 2025, they retired the Bing Search APIs entirely, effective August 2025, directing customers toward AI-focused alternatives like Azure AI Agents.

> Google: Google does not offer a public search API. The only available path is an ad-syndication bundle with no changes to result presentation - the model Startpage uses. Ad syndication is a non-starter for Kagi's ad-free subscription model.1

And BTW, I think this is possible (perhaps, as someone suggested below, with smaller and niche-focused indexes). At Uruky we integrate with several independent search providers and indexes, and only one of them (Serper) uses Google's results indirectly — not the most popular (though it was added by pressuring demand). From our FAQ [1]:

> For web search, Uruky currently integrates Mojeek, Marginalia, EUSP (Ecosia/Qwant) (only works with French, German, or English), Linkup, Serper, and Uruky Site Search.

[1] : https://uruky.com/faq

EDIT: Sorry, I re-read carefully the whole thread and it seems we're saying similar things. Your claim, from the start, is about the SERP, not direct search, which is supported by their blog post as well:

> Because direct licensing isn't available to us on compatible terms, we - like many others - use third-party API providers for SERP-style results (SERP meaning search engine results page). These providers serve major enterprises (according to their websites) including Nvidia, Adobe, Samsung, Stanford, DeepMind, Uber, and the United Nations.

Re: Google changes its search box

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of Walmarts squeezing strategy with all the manufacturers. Business with us at the price we say or out of business.

But ultimately that strategy is good for the consumer right? In this context, if Google is going to give me the recipe without having to scroll through the story, that seems like a win to me. The ad-revenue driven Internet of web 2.0 is finally dead and I'm not sure I'm all that sad.

But google won’t give you the recipe. It’ll give you a pretty piece of text that resembles a recipe. You’ll only find out it’s not a recipe when it fails to produce a cake.

But then, the sites it's training on are starting to do the same thing, so maybe it won’t matter. Just last night, I pulled up four sites with “gluten free almond cake” recipes. One specified less than 1/4 the flour it would have needed, and another didn’t have any butter in the ingredients list. I had to eyeball the median and tweak from experience to actually get a bakable cake out.

Re: Google changes its search box

#643

I think this is the second time in a week (the first being the "Googlebook") that Google's promotional announcement video showcasing UI is so full of special effects, dramatic pan/zooms, and woosh sounds, that I have no idea how the final-end product actually looks or works.

Agree. Felt the same way about the first video and wanted to leave a comment but wasn't sure if it's just a me problem.

Re: Google changes its search box

#645
post #301

I don't trust facts from LLMs. When I am searching for something, I usually want to find primary sources. As soon as a number is involved, I do my best to not even look at the AI output. Even though the result is often good and combines information from multiple sources, it can also get things wrong by combining information from different eras or just plain outdated advice. AFAICT, without primary sources, the result…

> When I am searching for something, I usually want to find primary sources. And therein lies the rub; for years now Google's search results have returned useless SEO garbage. For now, it definitely seems like an LLM answer is better than what was being returned and I guess this is the reason why Google ripped it out.

An LLM answer is not "better", it's in a completely different category. LLM answers can be useful, for topics where you can easily verify a fact (i.e if you ask for a Linux command and it gives you one, you can run it and see if it did what you wanted), or for topics which are more opinion than pure fact ("list some trade-offs between decision A and decision B"). But when you want information that's provided by some authoritative source, you want to see it from that source.

Google Search has been terrible for a long time. But you could still dig through it and find those primary sources. That is, in my opinion, the primary purpose of a search engine. Replacing it with what an LLM has invented based on ingesting both reliable and unreliable sources is not viable for a large category of things. The main way we can judge the reliability of something is to loo at where it comes from. If I'm looking for, say, official US job market statistics, whether I trust the numbers I find depends on whether I find them published on a US government website or on a random person's blog. A number presented to me by a chat bot would not let me judge, so it's useless.

The best a language model could possibly do, by definition, is to find websites and link them to me, letting me judge their credibility. But then it's just a worse search engine.

Re: Google changes its search box

#646
post #10

Nilay Patel has been talking about "Google Zero" - the moment when Google effectively stops sending any traffic to other sites - for a few years now: https://www.theverge.com/24167865/google-zero-search-crash-h...

Take it one step further, the ultimate endgame is everyone consuming things through their own LLM assistant

In the future I don't even use Google but my bot does

Re: Google changes its search box

#647

A lot of people in these comments have strong opinions about the performance of a service they use frequently, for which they pay zero dollars, and is run by a public company with a fiduciary duty to provide ROI to its investors. I wonder how many of them would switch to a paid model that offered pre-ai-era google search?

I’m just waiting for someone to announce they made a classic Google search engine alternative (which they coded using AI).

Re: Google changes its search box

#648
post #10

Nilay Patel has been talking about "Google Zero" - the moment when Google effectively stops sending any traffic to other sites - for a few years now: https://www.theverge.com/24167865/google-zero-search-crash-h...

Take it one step further, the ultimate endgame is everyone consuming things through their own LLM assistant In the future I don't even use Google but my bot does

I think the idea is the google is the bot

Re: Google changes its search box

#649
Leaving aside the user experience, how can this ve economically viable for them? Isn't inference still more expensive than normal search? (plus how do ads work?)

But they do AI chat already anyway so, maybe it's fine

Re: Google changes its search box

#650
post #2

Web search won't make shareholders happy. Agentic capabilities and AI-powered interactive features in the search experience - most definitely will. > You can still view traditional results only by selecting the “Web” tab in Google Search I think we should still get a couple of years of life from Google. This is enough time to figure out what to do next.

Their web search property declining in usage due to aggressive new competition also won’t make investors happy
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