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Gemini 3.5 Flash

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Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#101

Post by SXX »

SXX wrote: post #62
SXX wrote: post #27

> Create animated SVG of a frog on a boat rowing through jungle river. Single page self contained HTML page with SVG 3.5 Flash: Thinking Medium - 7516 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?5c9858fd2057e678b55d563d9bff0... 3.5 Flash: Thinking High - 7280 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?1cab3d70064349d08cf5952cdc165... 3.1 Pro - 28,258 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?6bf3da2f80487608b9525bce53018... Though…

Gemini 3.1 Flash Lite Thinking High - 2,526 tokens: https://gistpreview.github.io/?3496285c5dac5ba10ebbc0b201a1a... Gemini 2.5 Pro - 5,325 tokens: https://gistpreview.github.io/?cc5e0fefeaaffecd228c16c95e736... Gemini 2.5 Flash - 7,556 tokens: https://gistpreview.github.io/?263d6058fe526a62b8f270f0620ec... Gemma 4 31B IT - 3,261 tokens via AI Studio: https://gistpreview.github.io/?858a42b96af864859a3b89508619d... Gem…

Gemma 4 E4B it via Edge Gallery on pixel phone:

https://gistpreview.github.io/?da742884e5e830ce71ee4db877519...

OFC this is just for fun, but nevertheless gave me working code on first try.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#102

Post by IncreasePosts »

rudedogg wrote: post #94
GodelNumbering wrote: post #84

Per million input/output tokens: Gemini 2.5 flash: $0.30/$2.50 Gemini 3.0 flash preview: $0.50/$3.00 Gemini 3.5 flash: $1.50/$9.00 Interesting pricing direction. I don't think we have ever seen a 3x price increase for in the immediate next same-sized model (and lol @ 3 only ever getting a preview). 3.5 flash costs similar to Gemini 2.5 pro which was $1.25/$10

If Google is actually getting cheaper inference than everyone else with their TPUs, this smells like trouble to me. Maybe serving LLMs at a profit is proving difficult. Or maybe they think because their benchmarks are good they can ramp up the prices. Seems like they don’t have the market share to justify a move like that yet to me.

Maybe the margins are just very large for Google because they predict so much demand for 3.5?

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#103

Post by dr_dshiv »

GodelNumbering wrote: post #84

Per million input/output tokens: Gemini 2.5 flash: $0.30/$2.50 Gemini 3.0 flash preview: $0.50/$3.00 Gemini 3.5 flash: $1.50/$9.00 Interesting pricing direction. I don't think we have ever seen a 3x price increase for in the immediate next same-sized model (and lol @ 3 only ever getting a preview). 3.5 flash costs similar to Gemini 2.5 pro which was $1.25/$10

3.1 flash lite — $0.25/$1.50 — plus insanely fast.

3.1 flash lite isn’t quite as good as 3 flash preview (which is the most incredible cheap model… I really love it) — but 3.1 is half the price and the insane speed opens up different use cases.

For comparison, Opus models are $5/$25

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#104

Post by GodelNumbering »

dbbk wrote: post #93
GodelNumbering wrote: post #84

Per million input/output tokens: Gemini 2.5 flash: $0.30/$2.50 Gemini 3.0 flash preview: $0.50/$3.00 Gemini 3.5 flash: $1.50/$9.00 Interesting pricing direction. I don't think we have ever seen a 3x price increase for in the immediate next same-sized model (and lol @ 3 only ever getting a preview). 3.5 flash costs similar to Gemini 2.5 pro which was $1.25/$10

I don't think they're really comparable. Seems they created the Flash-Lite tier to take the spot of the old Flash models.

No, 2.5 had both flash and flash lite.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#105

Post by NitpickLawyer »

simianwords wrote: post #80

No one talking about how this flash Beats Pro? Imagine what 3.5 pro looks like? Also concerned about Gemini models being benchmaxxed generally

> concerned about Gemini models being benchmaxxed generally

I would say they are the least benchmaxxed out of all the top labs, for coding. They've always been behind opus/gpt-xhigh for agentic stuff (mostly because of poor tool use), but in raw coding tasks and ability to take a paper/blog/idea and implement it, they've been punching above their benchmarks ever since 2.5. I would still take 2.5 over all the "chinese model beats opus" if I could run that locally, tbh.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#106

Post by svachalek »

__jl__ wrote: post #29
himata4113 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think input/output pricing matters, 90% of the cost is cache. $0.15 is pretty good, but still very expensive.

In our experience, caching is not very reliable with google. We always get random cache misses that don't happen with other providers. We find OpenAI, Anthropic and Fireworks (which we use a lot) all have higher cache hit rates. So it's not only about the costs of cached token but also what kind of cached hit rate you get.

In my experience Google is the most flaky in general, which is surprising considering the rock solid history of their search and other products. Just more likely not to respond at all, to give a response out of left field, to handle the same error in 12 different ways randomly (a rainbow of HTTP status codes and error messages), etc etc.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#107

Post by SXX »

abtinf wrote: post #64
SXX wrote: post #27

> Create animated SVG of a frog on a boat rowing through jungle river. Single page self contained HTML page with SVG 3.5 Flash: Thinking Medium - 7516 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?5c9858fd2057e678b55d563d9bff0... 3.5 Flash: Thinking High - 7280 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?1cab3d70064349d08cf5952cdc165... 3.1 Pro - 28,258 tokens https://gistpreview.github.io/?6bf3da2f80487608b9525bce53018... Though…

hesamation/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-Claude-4.6-Opus-Reasoning-Distilled-GGUF @ Q6_K 8112 tokens @ 52.97 TPS, 0.85s TTFT https://gistpreview.github.io/?7bdefff99aca89d1bc12405323bd4... Full session: https://gist.github.com/abtinf/7bdefff99aca89d1bc12405323bd4... Generated with LM Studio on a Macbook Pro M2 Max https://huggingface.co/hesamation/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-Claude-4.6...

Well, honestly this is quite impressive compared to 3.1 Flash Lite and 2.5 Pro. Considering that 2.5 Pro is actually quite good at generating massive amounts of code one shot.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#108

Post by GodelNumbering »

IncreasePosts wrote: post #102
rudedogg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google is actually getting cheaper inference than everyone else with their TPUs, this smells like trouble to me. Maybe serving LLMs at a profit is proving difficult. Or maybe they think because their benchmarks are good they can ramp up the prices. Seems like they don’t have the market share to justify a move like that yet to me.

Maybe the margins are just very large for Google because they predict so much demand for 3.5?

This combined with locally runnable models getting pretty good recently (e.g. Qwen 3.6) tells me that it's time to seriously consider local dev setup again

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#109

Post by rjh29 »

WarmWash wrote: post #57
aliljet wrote: post #33

Is there a good benchmark tracking hallucinations? The models are all incredibly good now, even the open ones, and my hope is that the rate of hallucinations is something that's falling off in concert with larger and larger context lengths.

People complain about them incessantly, but I can almost never get people to actually post receipts. Every provider allows sharing chats, and anyone can share a prompt that reliably produces hallucinations. More often than not, people are using images in responses that go awry. Which is fair, the models are sold as multi-modal, but image analyses is still at gpt-4.0 text-analyses levels. Also knowledge cutoff issues,…

"People complain about them incessantly, but I can almost never get people to actually post receipts."

...my chats are all pretty long and involve personal conversations, or I've deleted them. It's a lot to ask for someone to post receipts. The number of complaints is enough data.

No matter how big the model is there will be edge cases where it has no data or is out of date. In these cases it just makes stuff up. You can detect it yourself by looking for words like usually or often when it states facts, e.g. "the mall often has a Starbucks." I asked it about a Genshin Impact character released in June 2025 and it consistently interpreted the name (Aino) as my player character because Aino wasn't in its data.

Honestly I'm surprised your haven't encountered it if you're using it more than casually. Pro is much better but not perfect.

Re: Gemini 3.5 Flash

#110

Post by doginasuit »

GodelNumbering wrote: post #84

Per million input/output tokens: Gemini 2.5 flash: $0.30/$2.50 Gemini 3.0 flash preview: $0.50/$3.00 Gemini 3.5 flash: $1.50/$9.00 Interesting pricing direction. I don't think we have ever seen a 3x price increase for in the immediate next same-sized model (and lol @ 3 only ever getting a preview). 3.5 flash costs similar to Gemini 2.5 pro which was $1.25/$10

They probably never intended to keep serving cheap models. This is a natural way to introduce the squeeze, now that they have people who built services on their API. It makes a lot of sense to have an abstraction layer where the provider doesn't matter. If you are working in Kotlin, Koog is excellent.
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