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OpenBSD 7.9

openbsd.org

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Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#191

Post by JCattheATM »

nidayewo wrote: post #88
brynet wrote: post #86

OpenBSD 7.9 release artwork by Lyra Henderson https://www.openbsd.org/images/PinkPuffy.png https://www.openbsd.org/images/puffy79.gif Release song is "Diamond in the Rough" - Composed & produced by Bob Kitella. https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#79 Apparel (t-shirts, so far): https://openbsdstore.com/

Interesting to see OpenBSD continuing to gain hardware support. I've been running it on a small home server for DNS/DHCP and the stability is remarkable. The man years of auditing really show.

Pretty much any OS would be just as stable if it's just serving DNS/DHCP.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#192

Post by JCattheATM »

maxall4 wrote: post #90
nelsonic wrote: post #11

With all the security issues constantly being uncovered in other Operating Systems - which will only accelerate with Ai - it’s time everyone considers OpenBSD. Their decades-long security-focus is second to none. We have fully converted from Ubuntu/Debian to OpenBSD. No looking back.

Is OpenBSD actually more secure than Linux? I have not been able to find any data to support this—only some vague opinions.

No, not really. Linux has better options available and is significantly stronger when configured correctly. The OpenBSD approach ls largely based around eliminating bugs in the first place, but isn't as strong at limiting an attacker that successfully exploited a bug they missed or weren't responsible for.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#193

Post by nelsonic »

bigyabai wrote: post #176
nelsonic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Curious which Bluetooth device(s) you can’t live without.

Naming a few peripherals on my desk that see regular usage on Linux: - Kensington Expert Trackball (I lost the 2.4ghz dongle) - JBL wireless earbuds/Audio Technica M40xs - Nintendo Switch controller

Ah, losing the 2.4ghz USB dongle ... Sucks. Feel you. :-(

Wireless Earbuds/Headphones are a legit use case. (Still use bluetooth with iPhone every day, sadly, still addicted to the convenience of AirPods ...)

But I've got decent wired headphones for my OpenBSD setup. bonus: never have to charge them. ;-)

Even more curious now: what do you use the Nintendo Switch controller for on your computer? Have you got it hooked up to play games on your PC? Or do you use it for robotics or other I/O?

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#194

Post by nelsonic »

mxuribe wrote: post #161
nelsonic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. I put off learning/using OpenBSD for a decade until a breach at a client (we weren’t responsible for DevOps/SysAdmin) made me pick it up because I don’t have time to be a full-time Linux Sysadmin anymore. Just want the servers to run without having to think about them. Wish I’d done it sooner. Lost at lot of time on Linux, Docker, K8s, etc. that I could have skipped completely with OpenBSD. Our servers are an o…

> ...I don’t have time to be a full-time Linux Sysadmin anymore. Just want the servers to run without having to think about them... Very salient comment there! And, while not the only reason for me, but what you noted is sort of one reason that's triggering the itch in me to go back to playing with the BSDs. Don't get me wrong, I still do love fiddling around with some areas of linux once in a while....but then, ther…

Yeah, time is finite and fleeting and the older I get the faster it seems to go!

As a teen I had infinite time to compile Linux and debug stuff. Now I just want to spend time with family/outdoors and not be stuck in a windowless room negotiating with a black box. ;-P

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#195

Post by binkHN »

JCattheATM wrote: post #192
maxall4 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is OpenBSD actually more secure than Linux? I have not been able to find any data to support this—only some vague opinions.

No, not really. Linux has better options available and is significantly stronger when configured correctly. The OpenBSD approach ls largely based around eliminating bugs in the first place, but isn't as strong at limiting an attacker that successfully exploited a bug they missed or weren't responsible for.

> when configured correctly.

These are the operative words. With OpenBSD, you get this out of the box and everything just works. With other operating systems, you have to do a lot of the legwork that's already been done for you with OpenBSD and make sure you didn't break things with your configuration.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#196

Post by binkHN »

bombcar wrote: post #184
nelsonic wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct; OpenBSD is secure by default. And it's not subjective at all. The homepage of https://www.openbsd.org proudly states "Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!" if they didn't have the evidence to support the statement, the internet would have forced them to remove it by now. ;-) Remote (exploitable) holes are the ones we all care about.

The key (and not saying it's bad, mind you) is that the default install has very few services installed, let alone running or open. So even if Debian and OpenBSD ship the exact same web server, but Debian has it defaulted installed and on, but OpenBSD does not, then a remote exploit won't count against OpenBSD.

There was a time when Linux distributions shipped lots of things on by default; OpenBSD bucked the trend and did not. This is less of an issue nowadays.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#197

Post by terry_hc »

tptacek wrote: post #171
terry_hc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slides are over 6 years old. The developers' attitudes haven't changed much, but are all of the arguments still valid? I've followed this discussion here and there over the years and it always goes like this: 1) everyone makes fun of the mitigations 2) many even outright assert they can easily defeat and exploit OpenBSD 3) nobody provides a working PoC when asked to demonstrate how insecure the OS is And somewher…

The site isn't the slide deck. Let's talk after you've read it?

I have now read all of the points in the mitigations section. Just like the slides, the commentaries to the mitigations willingly assert uselessness and imply a sense of absolute insecurity, but without specific or even general examples.

So I'm looking forward to your careful explanation of how insecure the whole thing is and how easily it can be dismantled. Because I really want and need to know. Let's talk.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#198

Post by tptacek »

terry_hc wrote: post #197
tptacek wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The site isn't the slide deck. Let's talk after you've read it?

I have now read all of the points in the mitigations section. Just like the slides, the commentaries to the mitigations willingly assert uselessness and imply a sense of absolute insecurity, but without specific or even general examples. So I'm looking forward to your careful explanation of how insecure the whole thing is and how easily it can be dismantled. Because I really want and need to know. Let's talk.

Wait, what? No they don't. The author is an OpenBSD person and calls out several mitigations as clever and worthwhile.

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#199

Post by cestith »

riedel wrote: post #48
nelsonic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FreeBSD has the same roots as OpenBSD but the former has a “compatibility” focus whereas the latter has the security focus. Having a background in security, the choice was obvious for me. But each person/org should decide based on their needs. Haven’t had any issues running it on all major hardware (Dell, HP, Lenovo, Apple, etc) the UI isn’t as pretty as macOS on Desktop, but it runs Firefox & Chrome, etc. so you can…

Actually that is mostly current HW compat. NetBSD would be I guess the one for legacy HW compat.

OpenBSD does support some older hardware already not supported by, say, most Linux distributions. As an example MacPPC has’t had support from most Linux distributors since IBM Power went little-endian, but OpenBSD runs fine on it.

NetBSD is, however, the gold standard for an OS that runs on just about anything. Their (maybe unofficial) slogan has been “Of course it runs NetBSD!”. Their logo has a flag in it because they “plant their flag” on so many platforms.

https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/

Re: OpenBSD 7.9

#200

Post by somat »

Release Engineering. Noun. See Also OpenBSD

OpenBSD does a lot of things well, definitely punches above their weight. One underrated feature is their approach to releasing. No "When it's done" here. Like clockwork twice a year, they slow down, clean the shop, get their experiments in order and cook a release, a stable point in time. More projects could learn a thing or two from this.

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