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Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

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Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#81

Post by ericmay »

epistasis wrote: post #78
ericmay wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. It shows that you're wrong about the diplomatic situation. 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. It takes weeks just to move some assets in place. You don't have a good understanding of how long it takes to do these kinds of things. > Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years du…

> 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. To respond to the closure of a key naval route that supplies 20% of world oil supply? After months of closure already, with zero response? This entire thing was started with zero warning, as far as your "diplomatic timelines" go. Asserting weird and strange judgement calls with extreme confidence, and belittling others' judgement at the same time, is a very weak argumentation…

[flagged]

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#82

Post by 10000truths »

nonethewiser wrote: post #33
10000truths wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to stop Iran from using the threat of cutting those cables as leverage? A speedboat and a depth charge are all it takes, and neither are particularly difficult to make.

Appeasement doesnt stop it, that's for sure. They would still be free to do it.

Appeasement worked just fine when the JCPOA was signed. It might have continued working had Trump not unilaterally rescinded it.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#83

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #80
ericmay wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're familiar with the mythical man month, right? If we park all 11 aircraft carriers outside of Iran, how will we have them deployed to support interests elsewhere?

You have correctly identified why people are asserting to you that the US looks weak over this, yes.

This is incorrect

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#84

Post by ceejayoz »

ericmay wrote: post #76
bonsai_spool wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a strong interest in this issue but it would appear your responses aren't incorporating the full scope of recent facts: > Nothing has fundamentally changed with respect to American power Yes, actually - Iran is charging tolls and was not doing that before. This is in the face of an American naval blockade right in their neighborhood. That is an affront to power, at least for the moment. The China point i…

> Yes, actually - Iran is charging tolls and was not doing that before. This is in the face of an American naval blockade right in their neighborhood. That is an affront to power, at least for the moment. I send a bill to every car that passes by my street. It's weird, none of them ever pay it. Iran can charge whatever it wants, but as long as America holds the blockade it doesn't matter. There's a misunderstanding t…

> I send a bill to every car that passes by my street. It's weird, none of them ever pay it.

Also weird: Barely any cars on the street now!

https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/strait-of-hormuz-ports...

Wonder if that's related.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#85

Post by jmyeet »

cgh wrote: post #69
jmyeet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was clear from very early on that this war was (IMHO) the largest strategic blunder in US history and it's not even close. Prior to this, closing the Strait was an untested threat. This war forced Iran to prove they can in fact close the Strait and there's nothing the largest military on Earth can do about it. Well done, everybody, the system works. The one point I'll disagree with is that sanctions do prevent you…

Re fertilizer, it’s already happening. Potash exports from Canada, the world’s largest producer, have surged. In another US own goal, I believe potash demand will offer serious Canadian leverage in CUSMA negotiations.

Agreed on the potash but I was referring to the impact on food prices, which is still to come. Although Canada still exports almost all of its energy via the US so this street goes two ways.

The nature of trade is a complex web of many interdepdencies and this applies to war too. Like for awhile, the US was letting Iran-flagged ships headed to China and Chinese-flagged ships to pass through the Strait. Why? Because of the repercussions of an energy blockade on China to the US and its allies. China produces like 30-40% of the world's "stuff". China dominates rare earth production and an export ban on that would cripple the US military long-term.

Part of the reason the US is going it alone in Iran is because of all the torched good will from the tariffs. You broke it, you bought it. This event is a seachange in the international order that will take years to play out. What's ironic is that the US designed this international order post-WW2 for their own benefit and they're probably going to destroy it in a single presidential term.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#86

Post by ericmay »

epistasis wrote: post #60
ericmay wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things are true, it's just propaganda. > The US has never looked, or been, weaker than it is right now. Nothing has fundamentally changed with respect to American power. If this was true, that America has never been weaker than it is right now, why wouldn't China just go ahead and invade Taiwan? This is the perfect opportunity! Or is it that the US is so strong that even at its weakest point it can dete…

Power is two things: what can you do based on fundamental force, and what can you do because of perceived force. The US has destroyed it's perceived amount of force, ergo it has lost a ton of power. And by not being able to keep the Strait open, it's a de facto demonstration that Trump is a far weaker president than Carter was. > And things change. The world isn't static. Yeah, what changed? The US got weak and incom…

> The US has destroyed it's perceived amount of force, ergo it has lost a ton of power.

That's your perception. It's not the perception of those who matter.

> Enough coping, we all see what's going on, you can't Jedi mind trick your way out of people realizing the prices they are paying at the pump.

I'm glad folks are paying higher prices. We need less c02 in the atmosphere, more transit, and fewer giant trucks screaming around. We need less dependence on oil, too, and we're never going to get there if we keep having cheap and easy access to oil. Part of the reason we're in these wars and conflicts is to secure those oil supplies. These things are linked together. Americans need to start putting 2 and 2 together.

> Will China attack Taiwan? You say it's not going to happen because it hasn't happened yet?!

That's not what I said.

> What's really protecting Taiwan right now is Ukraine. By Ukraine taking out Russia's navy through cheap naval drones (thanks UK for your assist there!), Ukraine has provided Taiwan a very thorough path to defense. Both by sea and by air.

America has provided Taiwan a very thorough path to defense. Not Ukraine.

> Trump also gave up Taiwan in his recent meeting with Xi.

This is factually incorrect. These are the things I'm talking about - people read some headline and then all of a sudden we've gone from this summit and a few random comments to Trump "gave up Taiwan".

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#87

Post by ceejayoz »

ericmay wrote: post #81
epistasis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. To respond to the closure of a key naval route that supplies 20% of world oil supply? After months of closure already, with zero response? This entire thing was started with zero warning, as far as your "diplomatic timelines" go. Asserting weird and strange judgement calls with extreme confidence, and belittling others' judgement at the same time, is a very weak argumentation…

[flagged]

> Speaking of, you're also doing what you're accusing me of "months of closure with zero response" how is there zero response?

As you noted, only today has it been reported that NATO is considering maybe doing something in the Strait. In a few months. "Don't be intellectually dishonest", indeed.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#88

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #84
ericmay wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, actually - Iran is charging tolls and was not doing that before. This is in the face of an American naval blockade right in their neighborhood. That is an affront to power, at least for the moment. I send a bill to every car that passes by my street. It's weird, none of them ever pay it. Iran can charge whatever it wants, but as long as America holds the blockade it doesn't matter. There's a misunderstanding t…

> I send a bill to every car that passes by my street. It's weird, none of them ever pay it. Also weird: Barely any cars on the street now! https://www.nbcnews.com/data-graphics/strait-of-hormuz-ports... Wonder if that's related.

There's plenty of cars on the street. I'd recommend checking your state department of highways as they usually have live streams of traffic at certain intersections, highways, and other areas.

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#89

Post by ericmay »

ceejayoz wrote: post #87
ericmay wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Speaking of, you're also doing what you're accusing me of "months of closure with zero response" how is there zero response? As you noted, only today has it been reported that NATO is considering maybe doing something in the Strait. In a few months. "Don't be intellectually dishonest", indeed.

How is that being intellectually dishonest? You made a claim that NATO and Gulf States are closing bases to imply that they were denying support to the US, not that I think that claim is even true anyway, but even so I simply provided literal breaking news of NATO increasing support for the US here. They may ultimately decide to do nothing because, by July this whole thing could be over. Who knows?

You are right though, Europeans do like to talk a lot and usually decide to do nothing. Maybe that'll play out again here.

Plus, at least I provided a source for my claim. Where are yours?

Re: Iran demands Big Tech pay fees for undersea Internet cables in Strait of Hormuz

#90

Post by bonsai_spool »

ericmay wrote: post #71
epistasis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. > Separately, we still have like 11 aircraft carriers and our entire military still in tact. Nothing has changed with respect to our power. If you think otherwise, you are simply wrong. There's no other way to put it. Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years due to massive technolo…

> Oh, 8 weeks, and they'll think about doing something? Huh, yeah, I'm sure that strong statement will have a big impact. It shows that you're wrong about the diplomatic situation. 8 weeks isn't that long of a timeframe. It takes weeks just to move some assets in place. You don't have a good understanding of how long it takes to do these kinds of things. > Naval power has shifted massively over the past four years du…

> Secondarily we are still supporting Ukraine

I think you're living with an alternative set of facts/interpretations from the mainstream, to which you are entitled.

We aren't supporting Ukraine anymore, that is essentially only Europe (via purchasing arms made in the US as well as elsewhere).

I really encourage you to try to think about what evidence undergirds your ideas and how you'd disprove your beliefs, which seem very resistant to current events.

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