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Colonization of Venus

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Re: Colonization of Venus

#51

Post by mmooss »

glenstein wrote: post #25
Robotbeat wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Untrue. You can actually mine the Venusian surface for metals. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen (the vast majority of the elements used by life) can be extracted from the atmosphere, as well as sulfur. So from an elemental standpoint, it actually could be self-sufficient. Not that you’d WANT to avoid trade with other planets, but it is possible. It is also possible to terraform Venus, although much more difficu…

Yes, but! It's very hard. But you are a million percent right that the Venusian surface has lots of fantastic metals, largely tied up in basalt and volcanic ash. The bad news to my understanding is that they're kind of pulverized and evenly spread out and requires lots of refining/processing, and not necessarily so much in the way of veins/ore deposits ripe for harvesting (though I could be mistaken). But back to how…

How high does the ocean-like CO2 extend? Usually the idea for a base is ~50 km altitude.

Re: Colonization of Venus

#52

Post by mmooss »

RetroTechie wrote: post #24
empath75 wrote: post #10

Every time I read about colonizing another planet, I think about how we correctly don't want to colonize the bottom of the ocean or the Sahara desert because it would be completely uneconomical, and yet either would be much easier than this.

It would be akin to a city floating on Earth's open ocean. With all food, household items etc, and even construction materials produced via extraction from the surrounding ocean. For Earthlings, the open ocean is harder to survive on long-term than deserts like the Sahara. Maybe on par with living off the land on Antarctic. Never mind all that corrosive stuff in Venus' atmosphere. Doable in theory, yes. But HARD (and…

I get your point, but ...

> It would be akin to a city floating on Earth's open ocean. With all food, household items etc, and even construction materials produced via extraction from the surrounding ocean.

Akin in some senses, but let's not omit that another planet would be far, far more difficult. Humans do live on boats and islands in oceans; we can breathe the air, drink the water (if desalinated), eat the fish, swim, build boats from resources, etc.

Re: Colonization of Venus

#54

Post by nine_k »

b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #50

space colonization, even if there were habitable planets within our reach, is not possible anymore. you could, for example, send a million settlers to Kepler-69420, and with the TFR of 1.5 - an unrealistically high number - the colony would be extinct in just a few centuries. 1m becomes 100k in 200 years and 10k in 400 years.

I bet the colonists would be highly (self-)selected for many traits not common in the majority of the population, likely including the willingness to have many children.

I suppose that colonists on other planets, like colonists on other Earth continents, would largely consist of people who are unhappy with the status quo at their origin, and would have some strongly-held ideas about a different way of living.

Re: Colonization of Venus

#55

Post by JumpCrisscross »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #3

It would be a colony constantly depending on Earth supplies and you would be constantly rebuilding it. Just like every other planet, nothing can permanently survive in upper atmosphere. It would be easier to have a massive ISS-style station in orbit, with a tethered cable elevator for research. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposing_Microorganisms_in_the...

> would be a colony constantly depending on Earth supplies and you would be constantly rebuilding it

To be fair, this is true for all planets with known science and engineering. I'm not sure it's obvious that Venus (with its higher pressure and better radiation shielding) has fewer fundamental problems than Mars (with its surface that doesn't melt metal).

Re: Colonization of Venus

#56

Post by zabzonk »

vjvjvjvjghv wrote: post #41
surgical_fire wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is also possible to terraform Venus We can't even properly terraform inhospitable places within Earth. Hell, if anything we are very quickly un-terraforming Earth into a place inhospitable to human life.

We would have to work really hard to make Earth as inhospitable as other planets or moons in the solar system.

But we are giving it a shot!

Re: Colonization of Venus

#57

Post by Robotbeat »

0xAFFFF wrote: post #42
Robotbeat wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Untrue. You can actually mine the Venusian surface for metals. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen (the vast majority of the elements used by life) can be extracted from the atmosphere, as well as sulfur. So from an elemental standpoint, it actually could be self-sufficient. Not that you’d WANT to avoid trade with other planets, but it is possible. It is also possible to terraform Venus, although much more difficu…

> It is also possible to terraform Venus, although much more difficult than for Mars. We are facing an existential crisis in the form of climate warming on Earth that we are unable to address properly. The thing is, terraforming Earth is the easiest thing to do: we already live on it, it's already liveable. Mars, Venus or any other body in the solar system is magnitudes harder to transform on almost every aspect. So…

Geoengineering of Earth is remarkably easy. The reason it’s not already being done is political, not technical or even necessarily economic. For less than NASA’s budget, it’s possible to do things like stratospheric solar radiation management. See: Mount Pinatubo. Some places (Florida, etc) have already made laws prohibiting it.

As far as being science fiction… obviously? Terraforming Venus is a very long term project. It’s scientifically possible but hasn’t already been done. I guess I don’t understand what “science fiction” is supposed to mean. Like, Jules Verne writing about long distance underwater submarines? Trips to the Moon launched from Florida?

Re: Colonization of Venus

#58

Post by Robotbeat »

rapnie wrote: post #44
0xAFFFF wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is also possible to terraform Venus, although much more difficult than for Mars. We are facing an existential crisis in the form of climate warming on Earth that we are unable to address properly. The thing is, terraforming Earth is the easiest thing to do: we already live on it, it's already liveable. Mars, Venus or any other body in the solar system is magnitudes harder to transform on almost every aspect. So…

Exactly. I used to be a lifelong fan of anything space. But right now it is limited to people conducting actual science to get a better understanding of our universe. All the dick-swinging billionaires and geopolitical vanity projects of going to the Moon and Mars are utter follies. Every billion spent there, a waste of money that could be better spent. And I am not even talking about outer atmosphere ultra-rich peop…

I really doubt your veracity about this. It’s literally illegal for billionaires to geoengineer the Earth to stop global warming (at least in several states). Doubtless you would also object to that as well. In which case it’s not actually about solving Earth’s problems but about not liking those who are doing it.

Re: Colonization of Venus

#59

Post by Robotbeat »

surgical_fire wrote: post #23
Robotbeat wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Untrue. You can actually mine the Venusian surface for metals. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen (the vast majority of the elements used by life) can be extracted from the atmosphere, as well as sulfur. So from an elemental standpoint, it actually could be self-sufficient. Not that you’d WANT to avoid trade with other planets, but it is possible. It is also possible to terraform Venus, although much more difficu…

> It is also possible to terraform Venus We can't even properly terraform inhospitable places within Earth. Hell, if anything we are very quickly un-terraforming Earth into a place inhospitable to human life.

What do you call Phoenix?
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