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Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

blogs.computerworld.com

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Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#61

Post by kragen »

nandemo wrote: post #51
kragen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's completely serious. Stallman thinks the social harm done by proprietary software licenses is greater than the good done by the ability to use the software. Do you think that's an unreasonable or laughable position? The consequence that it is better to close down the clubs than to let them encourage proprietary software usage is almost inescapable given the above premise.

It is unreasonable. Just imagine the amount of wealth that has been created in the past couple of decades by using proprietary software. Though one could argue the same could have been done with free software, he's saying (as you paraphrase) that it's better to have no progress at all than to have progress at the cost of using proprietary.

I do not think Stallman is saying that it is better to have no progress; he is saying that using proprietary software is un-progress, a kind of regression. I did not paraphrase his statements in the absurd fashion that you claim I did, and I would like you to retract that claim.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#62

Post by kragen »

whughes wrote: post #50
omouse wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can learn to write software to replace these so-called professional applications.

This is an advantage for Linux over Windows? Buying Windows and all the software needed and dealing with any technical issues will be far cheaper than developing the software again in every scenario. People use computers for work, not to use computers.

For most countries, that is plausible, but not for Cuba.

We're talking about Cuba here. Buying Microsoft software is simply not an option anytime in the next few years; it's illegal under US law for Microsoft to sell to them. Or are you talking about the $1 needed to burn a CD with an unlicensed copy of the Microsoft software on it?

In the case of proprietary software from other countries, from companies that are willing to risk US trade sanctions, Cuba still has to pay for the licenses from its very limited foreign exchange reserves, acquired from its very limited exports of about US$220 per capita per year.

Cuba has about 11 million people, 20% under 14, which means 160 000 of them graduate from high school every year. If its leadership thought software was a priority, they could train the top 3% of each graduating class in software development, roughly the same fraction as programmers in the US work force, about 5000 people. If they were at all successful in this, then starting in 2013 or so, Cuba would have at least a few hundred good hackers every year.

Let's say that one average software developer can replace US$150 000 per year of software consulting services or licensing costs from abroad. (Outside of Cuba, they're paid US$50 000 and billed out to clients at twice that, but aren't as efficient as somebody local who already has both the hacking skills and the domain knowledge.) Under those assumptions, each graduating class provides software that would have cost US$750 million per year to purchase from abroad, if purchasing it from abroad is even possible.

Cuba's total imports are about US$7 billion per year. So in 2022, the value produced by these programmers each year would exceed Cuba's entire current imports. And that's with only 50 000 programmers out of 11 million people. A more aggressive program would convert 3% of the entire population to software development, or 300 000 people.

So it's quite likely that, for Cuba, developing software internally would be far cheaper than trying to buy it abroad.

Of course, the value produced by programming is very hard to predict, as is the success of an educational initiative, as are international politics.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#63

Post by katz »

Maascamp wrote: post #55
katz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chile is one of the best South American countries. It has a lot less poverty than its more socialist neighbours. Here is a quite from WP: > Currently, Chile is one of South America's most stable and prosperous nations.[5] Within the greater Latin American context it leads in terms of human development, competitiveness, quality of life, political stability, globalization, economic freedom, low perception of corruption…

So all the torture, repression, and extreme poverty during the Pinochet era was worth is huh? And there HAS been socialist change since Pinochet. I can't believe you'd hold Chili under Pinochet up as an example of what to do. Good lord.

"So all the torture, repression, and extreme poverty during the Pinochet era was worth is huh?"

I never said that the oppression during Pinochet's term was right. What I said was that Chile's macro-economic policy was right. The economic growth under Chile was better than the inflation under Allende. Even critical things such as infancy mortality rate was a 4th under Pinochet as it was under Allende.

“And there HAS been socialist change since Pinochet. “

From WP:

The implemented economic model had three main objectives: economic liberalization, privatization of state owned companies, and stabilization of inflation. These market-oriented economic policies were continued and strengthened after Pinochet stepped down.[1] Successive governments have continued these policies for a quarter century.

Chile has the 8th highest economic freedom in the world – this shows that a lot of policies are still the same.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#64

Post by kragen »

jacoblyles wrote: post #58
kragen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "The Thais and Maylays were with Singapore in taking aggressive anti-communist actions in the 1960s. None of the countries that escaped communism approached the Western liberal ideal of political freedom." What do you think about the pre-civil-war human-rights records of Vietnam and Cambodia? Do you think they were more protective of political freedom before the wars than Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia? > "If I were…

One final point in response to your urban thesis: the difference in the standard of living in downtown Singapore and downtown Havanna.

I wasn't trying to claim all urban areas were equal, just that the economic development that has happened has happened primarily in the cities.

I'm still interested in your answers to my questions.

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#65

Post by gravitycop »

corentin wrote: post #35
biohacker42 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: After all, technology was improving, so goods cost less to produce. Why shouldn’t prices reflect that reality? When it's cheaper and easier to pull MORE gold out of the ground, that's not strictly speaking a fixed money supply. When Rome (the empire) dumped a whole bunch of new found (stolen) gold on Rome (the city) that caused inflation too. If your money supply is growing - it's growing. Now if yo…

Except he hasn't. Under the gold standard, there is a feedback loop allowing the market to control inflation (that is, people can invest more or less in mining technologies/companies). To some extent, this feedback loop also exists in a central banking system; it's far from being as efficient.

Under the gold standard, there is a feedback loop allowing the market to control inflation

Why would one want to control inflation? Inflation does not have anything to do with economic health, does it? http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/bwi-wto/jubi2000.htm

below 40% inflation per year, 'there is no evidence that inflation is costly'. Furthermore, there is no evidence of a 'slippery slope' there is no evidence that one increase in inflation causes further increases. Thus 'the focus on inflation ... has led to macroeconomic policies which may not be the most conducive for long-term economic growth.'

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#66

Post by gravitycop »

biohacker42 wrote: post #33
jacoblyles wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same amount of money chasing fewer goods leads to deflation - each unit of currency can buy more goods. When this occurs due to an increase in productivity, such as in the example you describe, deflation can accompany economic growth. Deflation was paired with economic growth in the United States under the gold standard for about 30 years at the end of the 19th century. This was a good recent article on a related…

From the article: After all, technology was improving, so goods cost less to produce. Why shouldn’t prices reflect that reality? When it's cheaper and easier to pull MORE gold out of the ground, that's not strictly speaking a fixed money supply. When Rome (the empire) dumped a whole bunch of new found (stolen) gold on Rome (the city) that caused inflation too. If your money supply is growing - it's growing. Now if yo…

if [...] you're inflating the money supply way too much and way too fast, that can be disastrous.

Why?

Re: Richard Stallman on his experience in Cuba

#67

Post by biohacker42 »

gravitycop wrote: post #66
biohacker42 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: After all, technology was improving, so goods cost less to produce. Why shouldn’t prices reflect that reality? When it's cheaper and easier to pull MORE gold out of the ground, that's not strictly speaking a fixed money supply. When Rome (the empire) dumped a whole bunch of new found (stolen) gold on Rome (the city) that caused inflation too. If your money supply is growing - it's growing. Now if yo…

if [...] you're inflating the money supply way too much and way too fast, that can be disastrous. Why?

The average person can't hedge their savings/income etc against hyper inflation fast enough.

Usually people just flee to the most convenient hard currency, like the US dollar, then every pay check is a race to convert it before its value drops.

But a lot of those paychecks are not inflation indexed.

Basically hyper inflation makes it impossibly hard to preserve any kind of liquid or semi-liquid wealth.

You can only hope to have all our wealth in things like real estate or perhaps gold. Although dry beans, rice and salted bacon are probably better then gold. You can't eat gold, and I'm not sure you can trade it for food in some of the worst parts of Zimbabwe.

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