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Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

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Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#111
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think their name is one of the strongest things going for them...and Google being more than a search engine to be the very reason Bing is gaining market share and brands like DDG actually have a shot at competing. Regarding the name...it is unique and very MEMORABLE (repetition is one of the four mental glues.) It has just as few syllables as Microsoft, and is super easy to pronounce... From a branding per…

Agree with everything you say, except ". By complaining about Google, they appear to be in the game of competing as an equal search engine," The nature of his exact complaint is that Google is capitalising on people's confusion with the name "Duck something", and then proceeding to capitalise on this confusion (in a somewhat sneaky way) by redirecting "potential DDG users" back to their own page. >> they need to poun…

Whether Google did this or not is hardly the point. The point is that DDG can never win if they lump themselves into the same category as Google. The confusion they complain about, and monopoly is DDG claiming we are the same as Google. This is the not the play that will win them the west.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#113
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you can legitimately make a claim on a generic name. I also don't see how this is a monopoly issue. It is a trademark issue, which doesn't have much likelihood of winning. I think i'm gonna start my own search engine called searchsearchfind and than complain about CBS's search.com monopoly.

I don't think he is making any such claim. Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you follow his full explanation, it is Google that is actually capitalising on this confusion and redirecting users to their own engine .

[moved to correct place]

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This http://duckduckgo.com/feedback.html is a good place to place intelligent, constructive feedback. The web community (that is, all of us) really, really needs an alternative to Google. I don't care whether you love or hate them. We desperately need an alternative.

MS spent gazillions of dollars trying to do it with Bing and isn't close yet. Google is simply the best service out there by a very wide margin. When people close the gap, there will be a viable alternative. There's no cosmic law that says there needs to be an alternative to product X.

I have no access to the internal budgets of Microsoft so I can't really comment intelligently. I am a cross-platform smartphone developer so I use wp7, wp8 as well as Google APIs daily in order to do my work and bing doesn't seem so bad for consumer oriented searches. YMMV. For the queries I execute, I agree their results are subpar.

But I feel compelled to respond. If there is no alternative to Google for something as important as indexing the output of human knowledge production... we are in serious trouble. The library of Alexandria burned and we still have no idea why [0].

Google is interested in one thing, getting you to look at ads. In their defense, well-targeted ads (++efficiency!). However when given the opportunity they have exploited their leadership position for every commercial advantage and recently to the detriment of search (e.g., I do not care to see what a bunch of "thought leaders" in google+ have to say on the topic I'm searching for). Their support for "Do Not Track" is grudging at best. [1]

Their business model is approaching that of a virus infecting a host. They enter an external market and utilize their near monopoly in web search/advertising to drive the value proposition for competitors to near-zero. And that gives me pause. It is like Starbucks opening in every local branch of your public library.

So, I support DDG and I give them feedback on my own time in the hopes they aren't also inherently out to screw me in the end. Also because I do believe (and this is an assumption on my part) that a "cosmic" -- well that may be an overreach -- law is involved. Search is not a natural monopoly [2].

[0] http://www.economicshelp.org/dictionary/n/natural-monopoly.h... [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Google#Do_Not_Trac... [2] http://www.economicshelp.org/dictionary/n/natural-monopoly.h...

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#116
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with everything you say, except ". By complaining about Google, they appear to be in the game of competing as an equal search engine," The nature of his exact complaint is that Google is capitalising on people's confusion with the name "Duck something", and then proceeding to capitalise on this confusion (in a somewhat sneaky way) by redirecting "potential DDG users" back to their own page. >> they need to poun…

Whether Google did this or not is hardly the point. The point is that DDG can never win if they lump themselves into the same category as Google. The confusion they complain about, and monopoly is DDG claiming we are the same as Google. This is the not the play that will win them the west.

Hi,

First, I agree that they should not lump themselves in the same category. Second, I am not sure there is any point in crying yourself hoarse about how "different" you are when the general public who are looking for you using natural language constructs are not being allowed to access you in the first place by the "market leader". Going forward this that line of thought, I am reproducing my reply from below to your point, as it seems relevant here as well. (Apologies for the multiple posting).

If you read @yegge's original response from below (I reproduced it here)

This only started happening after I asked about the domain name. It used to point to a history page about Duck Corporation (previous name of On2 -- http://web.archive.org/web/20100802014055/http://duck.com/), similar to http://www.on2.com/, which was acquired by Google in the same acquisition.

Google should legitimately not sell it to me, though it would have been of course nice to do so when I first asked in 2010. I think an appropriate remedy would be to either point it nowhere, point it to the original page it had been pointed to for many years, or point it to the acquisition page (as http://on2.com still does) -- all things they do in other cases if you look at past acquisitions.

Effectively it is Google's fault because they are doing it now specifically in his case and not for others (as he mentions clearly) (because from their own tracking of searches, they probably found out that DDG is gaining significant traction -- this is my own opinion)

Secondly, while it would be nice to pre-empt all angles and all possibilities etc., etc., but I don't think any of us can foresee every possible way something will come back to bite your backside in the future. So, no, I don't think that it is somehow DDG's fault that they did not foresee this and preempt it.

P.S: FWIW, google renamed themselves from googol to google because the VC mispelled their name on the cheque. Just goes to show that such things are a fact of life. People have every right to vaguely try to look up "Duck something" search engine. However, Google is definitely in the wrong for sneakily redirecting users back to their own engine in this case by misusing this vagueness.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#118
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he is making any such claim. Like I mentioned elsewhere, if you follow his full explanation, it is Google that is actually capitalising on this confusion and redirecting users to their own engine .

The confusion (if it really exists) has nothing to do with Google. It has to do with DDG not protecting their turf. When they chose their name, they could have chosen thousands of others. This isn't and shouldn't be Google's problem and quite frankly comes off as a weakness that DDG ran with this story.

If you read @yegge's response (I reproduced it here)

This only started happening after I asked about the domain name. It used to point to a history page about Duck Corporation (previous name of On2 -- http://web.archive.org/web/20100802014055/http://duck.com/), similar to http://www.on2.com/, which was acquired by Google in the same acquisition.

Google should legitimately not sell it to me, though it would have been of course nice to do so when I first asked in 2010. I think an appropriate remedy would be to either point it nowhere, point it to the original page it had been pointed to for many years, or point it to the acquisition page (as http://on2.com still does) -- all things they do in other cases if you look at past acquisitions.

Effectively it is Google's fault because they are doing it now specifically in his case and not for others (as he mentions clearly)

Secondly, while it would be nice to pre-empt all angles and all possibilities etc., etc., but I don't think any of us can foresee every possible way something will come back to bite your backside in the future. So, no, I don't think that it is somehow DDG's fault that they did not foresee this and preempt it.

P.S: FWIW, google renamed themselves from googol to google because the VC mispelled their name on the cheque. Just goes to show that such things are a fact of life. People have every right to vaguely try to look up "Duck something" search engine. However, Google is definitely in the wrong for sneakily redirecting users back to their own engine in this case by misusing this vagueness.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#119
The biggest takeaway is that Google owns duck.com (through acquisition), duck.com pointed to a web page for the company they acquired up until DuckDuckGo made enquiries about potentially getting it, duck.com was then pointed toward google.com. That's probably the biggest dick-move Google has made, and they're perfectly within their rights to do it. It's still a dick-move, Google doesn't need to worry about DDG ever attaining marketshare in a meaningful manner, and DDG have said they're not interested in that.

Re: Google competitor DuckDuckGo says it's getting shut out

#120
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to DuckDuckGo's FAQ you are wrong http://help.duckduckgo.com/customer/portal/articles/216399-s... The DuckDuckBot crawls and indexes the web. http://duckduckgo.com/duckduckbot.html

I suspect it's trivial at best. Every test search I've ever done on DDG shows near identical results to Bing. I'd like to see a search that uses it's own data, examples? Gigablast was the last serious third-party backend that had a chance for independent data. It's like old-school Google. Gabriel should try to buy Gigablast and merge it with DDG so he has his own independent dataset.

Gigablasts creator has made this now http://procog.com/ the results are better then gigablast.
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