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The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

derekthompson.org

21–30 of 54 posts

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#21
> “Only two things are important right now in life: fertility and deep learning,” the University of Pennsylvania economist Jesús Fernández-Villaverde said at the conclusion of a recent lecture. “Everything else is noise."

And the climate crisis. Why does it seem like everyone has forgotten about the climate crisis recently? AI isn't going to fix it.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#22
I have one kid, who is my favourite thing in the world even though he is still a toddler, but I'm not sure if we will have more. We certainly wouldn't have more than two, so we'd still be slightly below replacement rate.

I'd rather focus all my time and resources on one or two children and here in Catalunya it's hard to even buy a single family home (most people live in apartments which are very small by American standards) so if I want each kid to be able to have their own room then I'm pretty much limited to one, at most two, unless I win the lottery or something.

Furthermore, it's very difficult for women as the birth and recovery is very hard. There is a lot of pressure on women to breastfeed nowadays too, not just from social media, but even from medical staff. Personally, I was always formula fed as a child so I didn't care if my child was breastfed or not - but nonetheless I could tell the pressure took a big toll on my wife. I ended up in a serious argument with a nurse over it at one point.

I doubt this trend of declining fertility will reverse so we really ought to think about how we will adapt to these changes. I wonder how many people will regret not having kids, or having more kids, though. I waited until 33 to have my kid and I think one of my biggest regrets in life is not having done it sooner.

It was funny reading through the article, as I actually live in Catalunya and I am improving my Catalan precisely to be able to go and live with my kid in one of those small villages in the mountains :)

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#23
I tend to view this as purely an optimization problem.

Basically all aspects of traditional values, systems in place and the whole lifestyle, established mostly after the agricultural revolution; seems to be laser-focused on increasing surviving offspring.

I feel like it should be obvious that if you take a solution that optimizes almost exclusively for x (surviving offspring), and replace it partially, optimizing for a,b,c (industrial output, female participation to workforce, etc.); you necessarily get a lower x in exchange for higher a,b,c.

Now it looks to me like everyone is trying to increase x back again, but without decreasing a,b,c. It seems obvious to me that you cannot do this (unless you have been doing a terrible job at optimizing before). You have to trade some value off from the other side. But in our current society, I don't see how can this happen.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#24
I think the real issue is not fertility. It is humans refusing to share wealth fairly, which then leads to low fertility.

A world with fewer humans, plus AI/robots doing the heavy work would be amazing, if we shared wealth fairly.

Unless we humans figure out a way to build institutions that share wealth rather than hoard it, then we are toast either way.

Headline should read “The global wealth hoarding crisis is worse than you think”

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#25

if you want a thing, pay for it. the economics of childrearing aren't workable for most people without a huge cut to standard of living.

This has always been true. We have talked about the costs of raising children forever. What is different now, is twofold: 1. Bigger financial impact of having a child, both through less government support, and because more women are working. This combined means that to have a child, often, one of the parents needs to stop working, which severely impacts SoL. 2. Less social impact of not having a child. It is far more…

I think it also becomes a sort of social contagion - in that you are much less likely to have a kid if you don't know anyone that recently had a kid, it feels like a much bigger leap into the unknown.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#27
post #3

> “Only two things are important right now in life: fertility and deep learning,” the University of Pennsylvania economist Jesús Fernández-Villaverde said at the conclusion of a recent lecture. “Everything else is noise. Once you start thinking about these, it’s hard to start thinking about anything else.” Not sure if I agree but that's quite a memorable quote

It's also a useless quote. Fertility requires a whole supply chain pyramid: food, housing, infrastructure, medical industry, alcohol... the same goes for the needs of deep learning: energy, rare earths, nuclear science,... together they cover almost all of the economy anyway, with the exception of luxury goods, but then again you need those to make yourself attractive. So yes, we need hoverboards to procreate and coffee and cape-shit to keep scientists entertained.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#28
post #17

What if - evolutionarily we just haven't evolved for birth control? What if - given a choice, women just don't want to have 2.1 children on average? No one wants to touch this topic, because it's super offensive and probably political, but it seems like the most plausible to me. And clearly we're not going back. No one is going to ban birth control, and they probably shouldn't. But then where do we go from here? Basi…

We’re certainly not dying out. At minimum, eventually civilisation would crack badly enough that we can no longer make contraceptives, nor other entertainment to distract from sex. Which I’m fairly sure is part of the picture. Evolution didn’t build us to want sex; it built us to crave stimulation, which is more generally useful, then made reproduction into fallback entertainment.

Depends on what you mean by "we". Humanity? Yeah, impossible to die out by fertility crisis merely due to lifestyle. The fewer babies are born, the more unoccupied space there is, making it more and more attractive to have kids. But if you mean "Americans" or "ethnic population", it's very much possible to die out. It happened to native Americans, it can happen to your group. If birth control collapses in your country, you can still be supplied by another one from across the globe who secretly or openly cheers for your collapse. Same goes for shipping you drugs, see history. As for space becoming available from your low fertility, alas that doesn't work when you're being invaded and your land settled in by a more fertile country.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#29

if you want a thing, pay for it. the economics of childrearing aren't workable for most people without a huge cut to standard of living.

The countries that do pay for it don’t have significantly higher fertility rates. I’d say there’s an elephant in the room: Childbirth sucks. If you want women to willingly subject themselves to that, you need either a culture that virtually requires it- And I want to take a moment to emphasise that I don’t like nor want this solution, and would fight anyone who tries for it. -or you need to pay them well above the ac…

Then disappear into the night, others still value having descendants above economic calculus.

Re: The Global Fertility Crisis Is Worse Than You Probably Think

#30
Derek Thompson keeps banging his neoliberal drum in the face of (what he sees as) literal extinction. We need GDP, growth, yada yada. Just another 1% of GDP growth bro, it’ll fix everything. It’s funny how we’re unwilling to move a single iota on our socio-politico-economic system and actually fix what people are SAYING the problem is. Actually free childcare, education, cheaper housing, more future security, etc. Yes, most of us grew up in a world where none of that was present, but we now understand how suboptimal it was on our psyches and want to break the cycle.
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