This whole article is a summary of Elon Musk in general. Lots of promises, no delivery.
Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
181–190 of 363 posts
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
But we're talking about a utility here. If someone just wants to own fashionable things there are better ways to do that.
Not if the two things you want are "solar power for your home" and "for your roof to not be covered in obvious solar panels". I have a Tesla solar roof. I bought it knowing there were cheaper options for equivalent solar power because I liked the aesthetics.
But I guess my first question is why you want solar panels at all then? For most people it’s about saving money long term first, then maybe energy independence (especially in emergencies) if possible, then just wanting to go green. If it’s aesthetics, you can do a cool roof without solar I assume.
What drove you to get solar panels ultimately and why did you go Tesla? Genuinely curious. I have a feeling you’ll say something i hadn’t considered.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#183Did any other manufacturers build their own version? It seems like the right long term idea but the lack of other players seems to indicate there's some underlying issue that isn't solved yet.
There are! This is outside US (Sorry, page is in Japanese)
https://www.ichijo.co.jp/technology/energy/solar/
They are famous for integrating their supply chain, controlling all of the build. If it is possible to make it work financially, they should be able to do it
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
It think they under estimate the 'Green bling' factor. For many people if they are going to get solar, they want the neighbours to know. Got to get that virtue signalling in. Not saying it is a huge factor but it is there.
Sorry I see I am being down voted. Understandable, I do come off a little like a jerk there. I am not anti solar in the least, I just kind it really fascinating how some folks who are very well meaning, also tend to love that they can show off their goodies. I wish it wasn't the case but alas this is how some folks are.
You're not supposed to be down-voted simply because folk "agree or not".
Honestly, I don't agree with you though. Yes, there are ways for folk to signal virtue, and that happens, but I don't think solar power is one of those. Frankly the utility, and financial, returns are just too high.
Obviously ymmv with regard to returns, but I'm getting 16% on capital invested (a number that keeps climbing as electricity costs rise.) That's decent enough that virtue-signalling becomes a meaningless goal. I guess folk might _like_ that they're not burning fossils to get electricity (I do) but the financials dwarf that.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#185Aside from power-independence, does solar on residential roofs ever make sense? For all the complexity of doing a few houses, you could do an entire parking lot (or empty land) and power the whole neighborhood.
Big picture society wide economics make no sense because utility grade solar costs half as much per installed watt. On the other hand it can make sense based on arbitrage. In a lot of markets the cost of the system is unfairly subsidized. People on the losing side of that can lower their costs with roof top solar.
This is completely backwards, residential PV is much much cheaper. Same for battery storage.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
Clearly they make economic sense or people wouldn't buy them.
Honestly they only made economic sense in my case because of government incentives. Although if the price continues to fall, they may eventually even make sense in my area without incentives. Electricity generation in the event of a power outage was another consideration for me. But yeah as a techy I also just enjoy having them.
You're regurgitating another anti-PV talking point. Even without incentives PVs save you money.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about this article do you find questionable? I think it would help to prove your point if you included specific examples. The article seemed fine to me.
Electrek has a long history of going between blind fanboyism and blind hate, the history is all there to peruse. They only changed their tune with the referral program debacle a few years back which was seen as a betrayal. It’s hard to trust “reporting” when it’s historically operated more like a tabloid.
I feel that way about the NY Post - a literal tabloid. Occasionally someone shares a story from the NY Post with me, and my first instinct is to think "why are you sharing this rubbish with me". But then I read story - often with the intent of pointing out why it's rubbish, and sure enough more often than not it actually is rubbish - and point out the issues with the reporting.
But sometimes it's not. I'll do my own fact checking (because I don't trust them) - and find out that maybe there is something to the story. Not only that - none of the sources that I typically read are reporting on the issue. And then I'm forced to admit that I actually learned something from the NY Post. And usually I've learned something about my own biases and bias in my regular information sources, too.
My point is this: if you can't get past the source of an article and actually engage with the content - then that says more about your own bias and trustworthiness as a source of information than it does about Electrek.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Both self driving craze and car tunnel madness is only possible at all because how car centric US mindset is. If you even try to suggest that people could instead use good public transport and pedestrian infrastructure they would look at you like you are some sort of crazy. Musk just takes car centric society pipe dreams and sell it back to them. Like OMG you transiting to work and can safely stay in your phone 99% o…
But transit only solves your problem in cities like London. Some people - for some reason I’m still not entirely clear on - seem to like this. But other people - so far the majority - don’t. And for those, self-driving cars solve the transit problem. That’s valuable. And you only need to beat unit economics of taxis. So there is a significant margin to capture
Are you claiming that the majority doesn't live in cities? 80% of the US population lives in urban areas. Self driving cars contribute to the transit problem in those areas because it's even more traffic.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly they only made economic sense in my case because of government incentives. Although if the price continues to fall, they may eventually even make sense in my area without incentives. Electricity generation in the event of a power outage was another consideration for me. But yeah as a techy I also just enjoy having them.
You're regurgitating another anti-PV talking point. Even without incentives PVs save you money.
I'm not regurgitating anything. I'm looking at how much electricity my panels generate, and what percentage of it I use, and I can say definitively that it would not make financial sense for me if not for the feed-in tariff program that pays me a guaranteed rate for electricity I sell back to the grid.
You can't just blindly say "PVs save you money". It matters very much how much sunlight you get, the orientation of your roof, how much electricity costs, how much labor and installation costs, etc.
My location is far from ideal for solar. But with incentives - which are funded in my country via a per-kWh surcharge on everyone's electricity bills - it just barely makes financial sense to have solar panels on my roof.
Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels
#190> The economics never worked either. An average Tesla Solar Roof costs approximately $106,000 before incentives, compared to roughly $60,000 for a traditional roof replacement plus conventional solar panels — a $46,000 premium. The payback period stretches to 15-25 years, compared to 7-12 years for traditional panels. Yikes that’s a lot of money. For most people buying solar, I think payback period is probably the bi…
I would love some kind of solar, but when I know how cheap it is to install it in places like Africa AND use cutting edge chinese solar/battery tech, my enthusiasm to pay a USA premium makes me just close the tabs. It's too expensive in america for some reason.