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Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

electrek.co

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Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#171

Post by freetime2 »

kccqzy wrote: post #163
freetime2 wrote: post #115

> The economics never worked either. An average Tesla Solar Roof costs approximately $106,000 before incentives, compared to roughly $60,000 for a traditional roof replacement plus conventional solar panels — a $46,000 premium. The payback period stretches to 15-25 years, compared to 7-12 years for traditional panels. Yikes that’s a lot of money. For most people buying solar, I think payback period is probably the bi…

In my opinion, the Tesla Solar Roof really appealed to people who wanted good looks. They probably already have their “forever” homes and are not thinking of moving at all. It is more about the emotional attachment to this part of your home than its functional aspects. You can buy a $100 dining table from IKEA or you can buy a $1,000 dining table from Pottery Barn or you can buy a custom $5,000 dining table made from…

Yeah and I think that's fine - and as I mentioned below my own reasons for installing solar panels were not just financially motivated. But the economics are also hugely important. Most people don't buy $5,000 tables, and most people don't buy Tesla Solar Roofs - the article says they sold 3,000 total in the last decade. And I don't think Tesla wants to be in the bespoke roof business - they want to be selling to the masses (or at least a sizeable well-off segment of the masses).

It also doesn't help that they seemingly had issues scaling up - and even people who were willing to spend $100K on a Solar Roof faced long delays if they were available at all in their market. Tesla's image has also shifted in the last decade, and having a Tesla parked in your driveway with a powerwall and solar roof doesn't carry quite the same image that it once did - which is important when you are relying on emotions to drive sales.

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#172

Post by Gibbon1 »

xnx wrote: post #74

Aside from power-independence, does solar on residential roofs ever make sense? For all the complexity of doing a few houses, you could do an entire parking lot (or empty land) and power the whole neighborhood.

Big picture society wide economics make no sense because utility grade solar costs half as much per installed watt.

On the other hand it can make sense based on arbitrage. In a lot of markets the cost of the system is unfairly subsidized. People on the losing side of that can lower their costs with roof top solar.

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#173

Post by tln »

pbmonster wrote: post #117
t1234s wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular solar panels work well but are an eyesore on a nice home.

There's a third way: in-roof or roof integrated photovoltaics. Normal panels, but integrated into the roof. Those look amazing. Very popular in Switzerland where some villages have strict aesthetic rules for buildings. Next best thing aesthetically are full-roof racks, where one face of the roof is 100% covered in panels. Nowadays you just have to select the right panel and you can make it tile the plane perfectly.

Don't you need fire setbacks? I didn't think full roof racks were possible

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#174

Post by ejoso »

hello8402 wrote: post #153
ejoso wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of alternative investments not pursued as a result of deployed capital.

> Cost of alternative investments not pursued as a result of deployed capital. Once you’re achieving 30-50% annual returns over 20-30 year horizons (PE, HFT, invite-only HF) , you stop caring about cost of capital for anything less than US$1 million. But 10% VTI / VOO, sure, factor that 10% into your excel.

Bully for you

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#175

Post by akerl_ »

brikym wrote: post #168
kccqzy wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, the Tesla Solar Roof really appealed to people who wanted good looks. They probably already have their “forever” homes and are not thinking of moving at all. It is more about the emotional attachment to this part of your home than its functional aspects. You can buy a $100 dining table from IKEA or you can buy a $1,000 dining table from Pottery Barn or you can buy a custom $5,000 dining table made from…

But we're talking about a utility here. If someone just wants to own fashionable things there are better ways to do that.

Not if the two things you want are "solar power for your home" and "for your roof to not be covered in obvious solar panels".

I have a Tesla solar roof. I bought it knowing there were cheaper options for equivalent solar power because I liked the aesthetics.

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#176

Post by HerbManic »

HerbManic wrote: post #99
peterisza wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was a genuine attempt but they failed to find a simple enough solution.

It think they under estimate the 'Green bling' factor. For many people if they are going to get solar, they want the neighbours to know. Got to get that virtue signalling in. Not saying it is a huge factor but it is there.

Sorry I see I am being down voted. Understandable, I do come off a little like a jerk there. I am not anti solar in the least, I just kind it really fascinating how some folks who are very well meaning, also tend to love that they can show off their goodies. I wish it wasn't the case but alas this is how some folks are.

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#177

Post by cityofdelusion »

freetime2 wrote: post #116
cryptoegorophy wrote: post #111

Why is this elektrek website still gets quoted? It is a very very biased website. I would dismiss any “opinions” or articles they post.

What about this article do you find questionable? I think it would help to prove your point if you included specific examples. The article seemed fine to me.

Electrek has a long history of going between blind fanboyism and blind hate, the history is all there to peruse. They only changed their tune with the referral program debacle a few years back which was seen as a betrayal.

It’s hard to trust “reporting” when it’s historically operated more like a tabloid.

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#178

Post by brikym »

akerl_ wrote: post #175
brikym wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about a utility here. If someone just wants to own fashionable things there are better ways to do that.

Not if the two things you want are "solar power for your home" and "for your roof to not be covered in obvious solar panels". I have a Tesla solar roof. I bought it knowing there were cheaper options for equivalent solar power because I liked the aesthetics.

Does it actually make sense financially vs investing in something else?

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#179

Post by bruce511 »

freetime2 wrote: post #159
ericpauley wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these payback periods factoring in opportunity cost? If not the game is already lost. If so periods that long are so sensitive to alternate asset returns that they could easily be infinity.

No - these numbers likely do not factor in opportunity cost. And yes, you can probably earn a better return elsewhere. But the reasons that I installed rooftop solar were: * Diversification. These days stocks, bonds, real estate, crypto, and even precious metals are increasingly correlated [1]. Solar panels offer pretty consistent returns regardless of what is happening in the stock market. * Backup power. I live in…

I'm in the same camp as you. I'll add that my panels are returning 16% on capital spent, and it's going up as electricity prices go up.

So, yes, I could probably get a higher return if I invested that capital elsewhere, but, apart from the diversification, I get benefits beyond the raw financial return.

Firstly, earlier this year, we had a cable coming into the house fail. By the time the electrician and city had done all they needed to do to sort it out, almost 4 days had passed. We would have been without power for that time. As it happens we ran completely on solar for that period - freezers stayed frozen, could run the laundry, etc. Some stuff was limited (no oven, no hot water) but the impact was minimal compared to what it might have been.

Secondly, during the day at least, I'm not really fussed about electricity usage. If lights are on, or AC is on or whatever. So there's less "hey, that light is costing money" etc. So we end up using more electricity, but the marginal cost (during the day) is 0. My next car is electric (already on order) and that can charge at home as well (during the day, I work from home) and so that just increases the return (utilization of available power goes up.)

From a financial point of view, for me, it's a no-brainer. Obviously ymmv - everyone's numbers are different. For me the payback is in the 5-6 year range (probably under 5 once the car comes online.)

Re: Tesla Solar Roof is on life support as it pivot to panels

#180

Post by gtowey »

freetime2 wrote: post #115

> The economics never worked either. An average Tesla Solar Roof costs approximately $106,000 before incentives, compared to roughly $60,000 for a traditional roof replacement plus conventional solar panels — a $46,000 premium. The payback period stretches to 15-25 years, compared to 7-12 years for traditional panels. Yikes that’s a lot of money. For most people buying solar, I think payback period is probably the bi…

It's even worse than that. They're making the comparison of a solar roof to a new standard roof plus solar panels, but most people absolutely do not replace their roof when they get panels so the cost difference is more like 106k vs 30k.
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