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Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#141

Post by Forgeties79 »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

Parents are expected to do more than you can imagine and everyone has an opinion on how they’re supposed to do it, especially in the US. You’re a terrible parent if you can’t keep a 5 year old from ever alerting somebody to their presence, but you’re also a terrible parent if you give them an iPad for a few minutes so they don’t bother people.

This whole thing where parents are expected to do it all themselves is actually a new phenomenon. Historically, across basically every culture, it was up to the community to raise all the kids together. To sacrifice and make compromises together.

Your parents likely didn’t have to deal with YouTube. There were basic laws in place that guarantee the content on broadcast TV fell within certain limits. Was that unacceptable to you as well? It strikes me that you take for granted the fact that you could never have been exposed to Alex Jones as a child. Let’s not pretend your parents knew everything you watched and saw, they just knew it could only be so bad most of the time. Yet you now expect parents to know everything on every screen in front of their kids with no assistance ever as the “attention economy” machine attacks all of us. It’s not a fair fight at all and your response is “parents just solve it yourselves” without a second thought.

I do not agree with all these age verification and surveillance state initiatives we are seeing. I am categorically against them. But your philosophy is harmful and frankly selfish. You live in a community. You have to make compromises.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#142

Post by SeanDav »

miki123211 wrote: post #93
pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

I'm against any kind of age verification legislation, but this is a really bad argument. It doesn't answer the question of "what do we do about parents that don't do their job properly." In theory, one could implement age verification by negligent parent imprisonment, in practice, I don't think that would work, and definitely not in all cases. If we accept the premise that children having unfettered access to the int…

It has always been the responsibility of parents to raise their children "properly" (whatever that means). What is special about internet access that now requires the government to legislate for it, and as a side-effect, greatly reduce the privacy of the rest of the population. This is without even addressing the argument that these measures may even make the privacy situation for children worse.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#143

Post by pretzel5297 »

rightbyte wrote: post #128
pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

You argue against "individualist societies" but then blame "their parents" for not coping with the kinda impossible task of protecting their kids from big tech or the surveillance state. It is a collective problem with collective solutions.

I did not say anything about protecting kids from big tech or the state?

Even if I had, your argument is we must surveil more to protect the kids from the surveillance state?

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#144

Post by tlogan »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

Sadly, this is how societies eventually tend to become. They need the younger generation to be “properly” raised (definition of “proper” really depends on the society).

If the side effect is that you also end up controlling adults and making them behave “properly,” then that is considered a plus.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#145

Post by SeanDav »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #107
miki123211 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm against any kind of age verification legislation, but this is a really bad argument. It doesn't answer the question of "what do we do about parents that don't do their job properly." In theory, one could implement age verification by negligent parent imprisonment, in practice, I don't think that would work, and definitely not in all cases. If we accept the premise that children having unfettered access to the int…

We don't hold parents responsible for most neglect. Why is this special?

I would hardly define allowing your child access to the internet as neglect. Like anything else, like crossing the street for example, there are dangers that can be mitigated against by education by parents and schools.

The government is vastly overreaching in this and quite frankly if one argues that this is a good thing, then where to draw the line? Will we want to see government legislation for every possible permutation of potentially harmful behaviours or consequences.

Sorry Johnny can't come out to play because I have not yet bought the latest government-legislated knee guard armour to prevent a graze, and BTW I notice that you have not renewed the foam coating on your sidewalk, if Johnny trips and falls there...

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#146

Post by tlogan »

abc123abc123 wrote: post #80
pretzel5297 wrote: post #74

[flagged]

This is the way! It is frightening how eagerly parents want to give up freedom for everyone, in return for not having to care about their offspring and the illusion of 100% safety. I think the authoritarian trend accelerated during corona. Our western political nobility got a real taste for power, and they have not been able to free themselves from that afrodisiac ever since. Therefore chat control, 1, 2, 3, and when…

I do not think parents are the one pushing these controls. They are busy raising the kids.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#147

Post by andrepd »

gambiting wrote: post #32
ogogmad wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah except that Ofcom(the UK communications regulator) already said that the main goal of the Online Safety Act isn't about protecting children, it's about "controlling online discourse". They dropped that pretense literally one day after the act got passed. >>I am getting very intolerant of these conspiratorial comments Weird thing to brag about, but sure.

Source please

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#148

Post by rightbyte »

pretzel5297 wrote: post #143
rightbyte wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You argue against "individualist societies" but then blame "their parents" for not coping with the kinda impossible task of protecting their kids from big tech or the surveillance state. It is a collective problem with collective solutions.

I did not say anything about protecting kids from big tech or the state? Even if I had, your argument is we must surveil more to protect the kids from the surveillance state?

I interpreted you as it was the parents responsibility to protect their children, ye.

I don't argue for a surveillance state. Authoritarians push authoritarian policies with convinient excuses. I do understand that.

I think there need to be a cultural shift and that involves the collective of parents not indivual families.

Like, my TV installed adtech shovelware over night and my son woke up early and watched it. Sport teams organize on Facebook. The school headmaster wants CCTVs. Door bell cameras are getting more and more common.

We can't fight those things as individuals.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#149

Post by ryandrake »

juleiie wrote: post #96
amiga386 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nineteen Eighty-Four is a further rumination on how Joseph Stalin held power. It was meant to inform Orwell's fellow English socialists, who still dreamed of their own revolution, what the practical upshot of that would be. Stalin did not rule by people ceding their freedoms in exchange for comfort; they suffered intense hardship! Their land was taken from them, dwellings and vehicles allotted based on party loyalty…

I don’t know what to think about China. I think I was brainwashed already. I spend too much time on Reddit where it seems they like China a lot and want to become China. (Is this AI generated sentiment?) Though none of them seems to be moving to China now that I think about it. Look, it’s extremely hard to remain some kind of objective nowadays on the internet. I no longer know what is true and what is false. Truth h…

> I don’t know what to think about China. I think I was brainwashed already.

Try visiting if you get the chance and see for yourself how things are. Depending on your workplace you may also have many Chinese coworkers who would be glad to tell you what life is like there.

Definitely don’t listen to Reddit, but also don’t listen to the countless other forums trying to convince you it’s a North Korea like dystopia.

Re: Mozilla to UK regulators: VPNs are essential privacy and security tools

#150

Post by ryandrake »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #113
Chance-Device wrote: post #84

I think this is a genuinely difficult problem that happens to look exactly like what you’d need for extended surveillance. When I think about it seriously, I end up coming up with the idea of a whitelist enforced on device for local accounts used by children. This would probably block most of the internet, and allow access only to sites that are validated as being safe. This would put a lot of pressure on sites and s…

> the idea of a whitelist enforced on device for local accounts used by children What’s wrong with making it the social media companies’ problem? If they sign up a child, they get fined. Everyone is then incentivized to come up with solutions. If some of those are shit, restrict them. If they’re not, great.

> If they sign up a child, they get fined. Everyone is then incentivized to come up with solutions.

This already is the threat, and all the solutions social media comes up with are eerily “Age Verification” shaped. They are all going to be shitty.

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