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The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

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Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#251

Post by jazzyjackson »

fwip wrote: post #208
nswango wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean tons of back pain is medically unexplained. It's not like physiology has a perfect record here that can be used to dismiss alternative theories.

Thankfully, you don't need a perfect record to dismiss theories like "a wizard did it."

There's a really neat book called Gift of the Raven about an athlete with chronic knee pain that doctors couldn't figure out any plan to stop. He rowed from Alaska to Siberia and the book goes on about a shaman that performs a healing ritual (psychedelic mushrooms were involved) and he finds himself cured. So, there are times I suppose when the pain is all in your head, and maybe has a feedback loop since pain will also cause muscle contraction which can pull bones out of alignment. Relax enough and the pain stops.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#252

Post by pseudohadamard »

KarlKode wrote: post #40
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I think a astronomically better example would be programs in the Netherlands, Denmark or Switzerland, where people heavily addicted to heroine can get into programs that will provide them with pharmaceutical heroine. Still prescribed by doctors (although specialized ones), but not just for pulling a wisdom tooth with huge margins for the Sacklers...

Don't Spain and Portugal also have fairly progressive policies/programs for drug harm reduction? I remember reading about it a while back, but it was a US source and they were trying really, really hard not to have to say "you know, this might actually be a good way to handle it".

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#253

Post by steve-atx-7600 »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

See also Oregon https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/oregons-experiment-wit...

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#254

Post by pstuart »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

This is a tired trope but must be made: society has accepted that drugs can be dangerous but we won't stop people from using them -- leading with alcohol and tobacco. Yes, restrict access to youth and avoid reckless advertising, but still the people's choice.

If the drugs are pure, and health problems that occur with abusing them (overdoses and addiction) are treated as health issues rather than criminal issues, then it's all a solvable problem.

Heroin being illegal didn't stop my brother from dying on it.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#256

Post by thrownthatway »

consp wrote: post #134
thrownthatway wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a small number of people. Around 1500 in a country of 9 million. What is this supposed to mean? That’s a completely nonsense statement to make because you’ve provided no data on problem opioid use in Switzerland. Is 1500 a lot? Not many? Average? Should all nine million be on the program?

I'd say it is about what you expect for a country with voluntary programs. In the Netherlands the original program like the Swiss, resulted in heroïne becoming a medication for heavily addicted people usable under supervision. In the Netherlands there are about 4000 people with medical prescriptions for heroine on a 18M population. Note that it is free, supervised and voluntary so ymmv in other countries. The conclus…

I’ve used heroin maybe 80 times.

I can understand why methadone is ineffective as a treatment.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#257

Post by AlexeyBelov »

thrownthatway wrote: post #256
consp wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it is about what you expect for a country with voluntary programs. In the Netherlands the original program like the Swiss, resulted in heroïne becoming a medication for heavily addicted people usable under supervision. In the Netherlands there are about 4000 people with medical prescriptions for heroine on a 18M population. Note that it is free, supervised and voluntary so ymmv in other countries. The conclus…

I’ve used heroin maybe 80 times. I can understand why methadone is ineffective as a treatment.

Wow. Can you speak more about this experience?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#258

Post by thrownthatway »

AlexeyBelov wrote: post #257
thrownthatway wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve used heroin maybe 80 times. I can understand why methadone is ineffective as a treatment.

Wow. Can you speak more about this experience?

Something like 25% of people who “try it once” will go on to be problem users. So don’t.

I had to call an ambulance for one friend cos he stopped breathing in front of me.

I woke up on my kitchen floor 45 minutes after a shot. I had time to cap the needle before I passed out and had no idea I was about to go down.

Another mate died because she used at home alone while her partner was at work.

Other than that, it’s a pretty nice high :)

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#259

Post by thrownthatway »

nswango wrote: post #131
thrownthatway wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the down votes? There aren’t 300 countries.

Any exact number of countries is offensive to several groups of people.

Yeah true. I did intentionally not count the Gaza Strip.

If that offends anyone, I’m good with that.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#260

Post by krispyfi »

yojo wrote: post #62
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

Oregon decriminalized drugs in 2020 and the experiment is widely viewed as a failure by both sides of the political spectrum. The Democratic legislature rolled it back four years later. It doesn’t necessarily follow that it’s impossible to have a legalized or decriminalized regime that works, but it is non-trivial to get right.

2020 was famously a period where the pandemic and the opioid crisis were causing death and despair all over the country, but somehow that became the excuse for backpedaling on decriminalization in Oregon before there could have even been effects to study, not to mention before there was time to study those effects. They even recriminalized drugs that have never been associated with overdose or addiction, like psychedelics. Basically, they did the bare minimum necessary to be able to say "we tried it and it didn't work" with a straight face. Don't fall for it.
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