Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format • Hacker News Board

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#301

Post by whatever1 » Sat, May 16, 2026, 9:59 PM UTC

skulk wrote: post #213

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything we've learned in the last 10 years is telling us that computers do not help human education in the slightest. We remember better when we write with pen and paper. We learn better with whiteboards and paper books. The simple answer: Remove most computing from education entirely. Blue composition books, pencils, whiteboards is what trains humans. Calculators are helpful perhaps but it is quite possible that…

> computers do not help human education in the slightest I had no access to anyone who could teach me calculus as a kid except Khan Academy, so I think this is a gross exaggeration. But I agree in the end, that all my "real" learning did come from pen-and-paper practice, not watching videos.

Khan did not throw at you a 100-slide Powerpoint deck in 45'.

He really took the time to replicate the manual teaching process of writing on whiteboard. He improved upon it by using colors. But basically had the same pace as a teacher writing on a whiteboard.

When professors are given a projector, they just throw together some slides and add their narration.

This is not very efficient. To learn you need to suffer. Or you need to watch the suffering.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#302

Post by codemog » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:00 PM UTC

We’re in an age where, to be possibly a bit rude but blunt, pseudo-intellectuals are obsolete. A pseudo-intellectual prided themselves on being able to efficiently solve closed, man made problems such as leetcode, CTF problems, or even math Olympiad problems. They could do good in school by memorizing a rote technique and applying it to some test. They typically don’t have any real creativity and if you put them to work on a problem you can’t Google or isn’t a fake man made one, they fall apart incredibly fast.

They may as well be the human equivalent to what LLMs currently are.

I do not mourn these people, as they’re usually the most arrogant types. I hope for their sake they adapt.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#303

Post by pastel8739 » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:05 PM UTC

Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

I think so many acronyms have meaning that isn’t explained by the words that the stand for. The other day I was explaining what CI is and they asked what it stood for; I realized that Continuous Integration is almost completely useless for someone trying to understand what CI actually is

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#304

Post by rrvsh » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:05 PM UTC

brookst wrote: post #258

unethical_ban wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The time may come when we can treat regular programming as a lower layer niche field the way we treat assembly today. I don't think we're close to that time yet. Just like as a kid I was told to prove my work by hand even if I could do it in my head, and just like we learned how to do calculus without a calculator and then learned how to use the calculator to get the same result, I think we still need the software fi…

I generally agree, but it’s just a matter of time, and even today people with domain expertise in other areas (accounting, weather, etc) are producing adequate tools using nothing but prompt engineering. Many caveats of course, but I still think 90% of the distaste for mere prompt engineers comes from “kids these days; my unique knowledge is irreplaceable and they don’t even value it” thing.

Adequate for what/who? I can 3d print and cobble together a lock for my bedroom door but I would never be able to work as an engineer producing real locks.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#305

Post by cco » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:10 PM UTC

pastel8739 wrote: post #303

Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

I think so many acronyms have meaning that isn’t explained by the words that the stand for. The other day I was explaining what CI is and they asked what it stood for; I realized that Continuous Integration is almost completely useless for someone trying to understand what CI actually is

Semantic names are great, but that's a separate issue. With the full term you can now go search for yourself and find explanations more easily.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#306

Post by ralph84 » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:21 PM UTC

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #205

baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

Everything we've learned in the last 10 years is telling us that computers do not help human education in the slightest. We remember better when we write with pen and paper. We learn better with whiteboards and paper books. The simple answer: Remove most computing from education entirely. Blue composition books, pencils, whiteboards is what trains humans. Calculators are helpful perhaps but it is quite possible that…

> humans that can critically think from first principles

This has never been achieved by, nor is it the point of, education for the masses.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#307

Post by doublescoop » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:28 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #297

Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

Which acronym do you mean? CTF? I think that acronym, just like BGP, is more well known by itself than what it stands for. More generally, not every piece of writing is meant for every audience. Like if someone writes a blog post about CTFs aimed at people who like CTFs, nobody in the target audience needs to have CTF explained to them. Ultimately HN is a link aggregator, but sometimes its a bit like eavesdropping on…

Best practice in writing about technical concepts is to spell out acronyms like this on their first use. There is a ton of stuff I learn about here on HN that I didn't know anything about before.

It doesn't help that the linked article never bothers to explain this either.

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#308

Post by nektro » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:29 PM UTC

easy, CTFs should ban it. then it'd be more like the chess community

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#309

Post by graceful6800 » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:31 PM UTC

Nifty3929 wrote: post #296

Must I beg to have an acronym spelled out a least once, the first time it's used? Even if you assume 90% of readers already know, the other 10% (including me, in this case) will thank you, it doesn't take much effort, and it expands the reach of your communication or idea. Exceptions for cases where the acronym is just so well known that a lot of people don't even know what it stands for even though they know the con…

Since this is the top comment at the moment: CTF stands for Capture The Flag.

Personally I have never, ever heard that concept referred to by the initialism. Granted, it's almost never come up in my circles, so... shrug

Re: Frontier AI has broken the open CTF format

#310

Post by sometimelurker » Sat, May 16, 2026, 10:43 PM UTC

jaybrendansmith wrote: post #205

baq wrote: post #44

Replace ‘CTF’ with ‘high school’ or ‘university’ and you’ve described the total slow motion collapse of education; the only saving grace is that most of it requires in person presence. We’ve figured out the human replacement pipeline it seems, but we haven’t figured out the eduction part. LLMs can be wonderful teachers, but the temptation to just tell it ‘do it for me’ is almost impossible to resist.

Everything we've learned in the last 10 years is telling us that computers do not help human education in the slightest. We remember better when we write with pen and paper. We learn better with whiteboards and paper books. The simple answer: Remove most computing from education entirely. Blue composition books, pencils, whiteboards is what trains humans. Calculators are helpful perhaps but it is quite possible that…

I don't think computers automatically make us more educated, but if you want to make a point don't use reductive exaggerations. > We need humans that can critically think from first principles to counter the recycled information generated by AI.

I agree with this.