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The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

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Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#201

Post by Glohrischi »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I'm not aware that anyone every tried to do it right.

Like how about you have to do a short course which actually explains to you how a drug works, how to use it correctly, what are potential downsides, what are markers of overuse/wrong use.

And the other main issue with opioids and co: some people really have constant / chronic pain.

Do you know how exhaustive it is to constantly have pain? How annoying it is that you can't just go to bed and sleep?

But also we can't play devils advocate to say "you are not allowed to do drugs to num whatever issue you have" and also "but i don't want to take time and effort of helping you".

Oh i don't want you to kill yourself! But i don't want to spend time tomorrow afternoon either with you.

Our society is very hypcritical in this sense. Honestly i think people just don't want to see homeless people or fentapoeple. Its not about helping, its just about not being disturbed by them.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#202

Post by [deleted] »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #146
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I don’t think it’s fair to say we tried letting people access it for recreational or performance use. The insurance companies and doctors became drug pushers without an explicit acknowledgment of what was happening. Easy access to drugs without being able to discuss what was really happening is worse than prohibition sure, but that’s not informed consent. Informed consent is the patient tells the supplier what they’r…

[deleted]

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#203

Post by Computer0 »

robotbikes wrote: post #41

And I thought for a second they were talking about peer to peer meth but no that's what the DEA shut down by tightly controlling pseudoephedrine, where before meth using meth makers were making meth and distributing it. It certainly seems like prohibition is just making things worse and making it more lucrative for the least ethical of black market producers. Similar situation with fentanyl when compared to previous…

Almost like the war on drugs is making my community a WORSE place to live!!!

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#204

Post by Shog9 »

nswango wrote: post #127
chadgpt3 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they were legal but hard to get? Say, we stop/arresting for possession or use in private, stop giving dealers and producers harsh sentences, but still give them moderate to weak sentences, stop proactively searching for dealers and producers, allow companies to produce with strict KYC, and don't allow retail sale in stores?

In California weed is legal but highly regulated. It's easy to buy weed in the legal market but very difficult to be licensed to sell or grow it. The result is that the illegal market dwarfs the legal market. The legal suppliers simply can't compete with efficient and untaxed illegal or grey market sellers. Note that the consumers who choose the illegal market are not in general socially excluded, habitual criminals…

California is probably the best example going of how not to "legalize" weed.

However, this also highlights the primary difference between weed and meth, opiates: ease of manufacturing. The only other common drugs that come close are things like mushrooms and fermented beverages, and I'd argue both of those are still riskier.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#205

Post by hx8 »

zephen wrote: post #30
serf wrote: post #20

>..What evidence is there that these have a chemical difference? 3 lines later.. >.. The Drug Enforcement Agency tests the meth they seize to see how it was made. quick answer!

Right? One suspects that "knowing how it was made" implies "understanding contaminants to look for."

There's multiple avenues for gaining knowledge about manufacturing processes. One path is certainly examining the sample, which is largely discussed in the article by looking at ratios of isomers. There would be other key indicators to look for in an examination. We have no lack of sample material, gathered everyone on the supply chain from border seizure to end-user busts.

Another path to "knowing how it was made" is examining the manufacturing facilities. I think LE has some understanding of the flow of precursor into foreign manufacturing facilities, and this has become a common hot topic issue in international trade.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#206

Post by dataflow »

nswango wrote: post #127
chadgpt3 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they were legal but hard to get? Say, we stop/arresting for possession or use in private, stop giving dealers and producers harsh sentences, but still give them moderate to weak sentences, stop proactively searching for dealers and producers, allow companies to produce with strict KYC, and don't allow retail sale in stores?

In California weed is legal but highly regulated. It's easy to buy weed in the legal market but very difficult to be licensed to sell or grow it. The result is that the illegal market dwarfs the legal market. The legal suppliers simply can't compete with efficient and untaxed illegal or grey market sellers. Note that the consumers who choose the illegal market are not in general socially excluded, habitual criminals…

Isn't it illegal in the entire US? The question doesn't seem to be whether you can obtain it legally, but how many laws you'd rather break in the process, and how much trace you'd like to leave behind. I imagine the illegal vendors are less likely to leave a discoverable trace (that could affect your future background checks etc.) than the "legal" vendors, which itself is an incentive to obtain it illegally even when it's cheaper and safer and easier to obtain less-illegally right next door.

Which basically means the US hasn't really tried legalizing it at all.

(Not advocating for any position here, just commenting on the facts.)

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#207

Post by aniviacat »

chadgpt3 wrote: post #102
bityard wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small towns in North America are are being decimated by meth. The drug dealers move in because there are no drug task forces, just underfunded and ill-equipped sheriffs and local police. My wife and I live in the suburbs now but grew up in a very rural community. Last year we went to a wedding there. It was shocking how many people under the age of 50 were missing half their teeth.

Is it the government's job to enforce people's teeth? I presume you also observed something worse than that but chose not to write about it?

They probably didn't ask all the wedding guests for their medical history.

Missing teeth may not be the worst, but in this case perhaps the most immediately recognizable.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#208

Post by fwip »

nswango wrote: post #130
bhotka wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does my spiritual wellness affect the mechanical structure of my lower back?

I mean tons of back pain is medically unexplained. It's not like physiology has a perfect record here that can be used to dismiss alternative theories.

Thankfully, you don't need a perfect record to dismiss theories like "a wizard did it."

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#209

Post by MagicMoonlight »

SequoiaHope wrote: post #146
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I don’t think it’s fair to say we tried letting people access it for recreational or performance use. The insurance companies and doctors became drug pushers without an explicit acknowledgment of what was happening. Easy access to drugs without being able to discuss what was really happening is worse than prohibition sure, but that’s not informed consent. Informed consent is the patient tells the supplier what they’r…

Doctors prescribed drugs and everyone became addicted, do you seriously think Nestle is going to pull their punches when they can sell people crack?

They’ll be outside funeral homes, outside schools, offering free graduation crack. Ads on every bus, hot women handing it out in the street.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#210

Post by gruez »

keepamovin wrote: post #181
cyberax wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the toxicity side, do you have any studies to cite? I wasn’t aware of toxicity, but it’s plausible. A typical therapeutic dose of amphetamines is around 20mg, topping at around 60mg for serious narcolepsy. Recreational doses can go up to around 1000mg for long-term users with 360mg as the median: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40385390/ That's the area of crazy toxic side effects just from vasoconstriction. Nev…

Okay, I remember seeing a documentary where people were doing lines of methampheatmine. And typically people would do 2 to 3 lines and be up all night. I would consider a line a "small amount". If I could go to a regulated dispensary and do a line of methamphetamine I think I'd try it. I don't think it would be neurotoxic, but I'd be very interested to know data that supports that, obviously! If you have, please show…

>If I could go to a regulated dispensary and do a line of methamphetamine I think I'd try it.

You can, it's called getting an ADHD diagnosis through a telehealth provider, which gets you an adderal prescription. It's not literally meth, but for all intents and purposes it's equivalent.

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