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Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

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Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#61

Post by michaelt »

The_President wrote: post #25
skc wrote: post #24

Many years later and I'm still bitter that the tech press laughed Windows Phone out of the room straight to its demise. Yes it had very little developer support but at some point things were looking up. It was just the butt of too many jokes from influential people. A third ecosystem right now would have been amazing

The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete, not the press. Not many tech products exite me less than the concept of a Microsoft Windows 365 Copilot Cortana phone.

> The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete

As I recall Microsoft threw quite a lot of resources into Windows Phone.

My then-employer had apps for Android and Apple, and Microsoft literally paid for us to port it to Windows Phone. Microsoft brought Nokia, who had dominated the industry in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

And Microsoft was early to the mobile party too - you could get an iPaq H3660 running Microsoft Pocket PC 2000, seven years before the first iPhone. Keyboardless Fujitsu and Compaq tablets ran Windows XP Tablet PC Edition in 2003, seven years before the iPad.

They weren't as good as what came later. Chunky, fragile devices, resistive touchscreens, stylus input with a tiny on-screen keyboard, worse batteries, worse wifi, barely any mobile data. And at the time, $500 seemed hugely expensive compared to a normal phone, even if these days there are plenty of $1000 smartphones.

But there's an alternate reality where Microsoft had a 'first mover advantage' and captured a big slice of the smartphone-and-tablet market.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#62

Post by graemep »

echelon wrote: post #40
janvlug wrote: post #13

I use a Librem5 Linux phone. With the default PureOS operating system. Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. Have a full Linux computer in your pocket that you can also use for calling. See also the discussion on this post: https://mastodon.social/@janvlug/116504044251287290

> Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs an…

I use a smartphone less than most people. Things I already could not do without a Google or Apple phone:

Use some banking apps. In fact I cannot use one banking app I otherwise would because it will only work if you have no non-store apps installed at all.

A regulatory requirement to prove my ID without using the mobile app would be a 20 min+ each way drive (plus walking, time doing it etc.) to another town.

> The EU and ASEAN are the best bets for regulation.

Did you read the recent HN stories about the EU's age verification app that will only work on attested phones? Lots of other governments (EU and non-EU) doping similar things.

> We need the government to pave the way for dozens of Apple/Google competitors. Or to horizontally split these two companies into dozens of "Baby Bells" that are forced to fight one another.

I have very little confidence that is likely. Politically governments are far more pro-big business and anti-competition than they have been in a long time.

> Being weird in the 0.0001% will not last, nor does it help anyone else escape this monopolistic tyranny.

Every single person who does not go along, is a a political and commercial argument not to remove alternatives. If I use a website and an app to bank or buy something, it pushes up the stats for the web app vs the mobile app.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#63

Post by ghaff »

michaelt wrote: post #61
The_President wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete, not the press. Not many tech products exite me less than the concept of a Microsoft Windows 365 Copilot Cortana phone.

> The Windows phone didn't make it due to Microsoft failing to compete As I recall Microsoft threw quite a lot of resources into Windows Phone. My then-employer had apps for Android and Apple, and Microsoft literally paid for us to port it to Windows Phone. Microsoft brought Nokia, who had dominated the industry in the late 1990s and early 2000s. And Microsoft was early to the mobile party too - you could get an iPaq…

Zune was also... not good. I was given one. It was defective. I think I got a warranty replacement and gave it to a friend who basically never used it as far as I know.

Nadella's Azure play basically saved Microsoft in my opinion. They totally blew mobile and desktop Windows and Office were declining markets and XBox was a sideshow.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#64

Post by echelon »

graemep wrote: post #62
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs an…

I use a smartphone less than most people. Things I already could not do without a Google or Apple phone: Use some banking apps. In fact I cannot use one banking app I otherwise would because it will only work if you have no non-store apps installed at all. A regulatory requirement to prove my ID without using the mobile app would be a 20 min+ each way drive (plus walking, time doing it etc.) to another town. > The EU…

> EU's age verification app that will only work on attested phones?

This is not a single unified front. Multiple battles are ongoing simultaneously.

There are strong proponents of anti-monopoly and digital sovereignty in government, just as there are those that want to push for a surveillance state.

Here are some recent and non-insignificant things that the EU and UK have required Google and Apple do:

- Support "side loaded" apps (as Google works to remove the ability)

- Standardize on USB-C

- Force alternative payments platforms

- Force Apple to stop requiring WebKit and WebKit runtimes

They're just getting started!

> I have very little confidence that is likely.

I have a great deal of confidence that the world is ready for this. Every non-US nation wants to break the stranglehold US tech has on their countries. The EU, UK, and ASEAN have a tremendous amount of power here.

We also have a huge reservoir of political support for breaking up tech monopolies inside the US. Lots of high profile politicians are ready to go to work on this, on both sides of the aisle.

Moreover, you have every single other company on the planet that wants this duopoly fractured. Entire industries that salivate over this.

It's just a matter of time and making sure we make these points articulate and loudly heard.

This is far more effective than trying to hack your device and proclaim "year of linux on android 2030". That doesn't work. It's a miserable experience and doesn't help a single other person.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#66

Post by alnwlsn »

echelon wrote: post #40
janvlug wrote: post #13

I use a Librem5 Linux phone. With the default PureOS operating system. Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. Have a full Linux computer in your pocket that you can also use for calling. See also the discussion on this post: https://mastodon.social/@janvlug/116504044251287290

> Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs an…

If a phone can make calls, send texts, read emails, and take pictures it already covers 98% of my use cases.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#67

Post by contubernio »

alnwlsn wrote: post #66
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs an…

If a phone can make calls, send texts, read emails, and take pictures it already covers 98% of my use cases.

Banking basically has to be done via phone now.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#68

Post by echelon »

alnwlsn wrote: post #66
echelon wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Enjoy your freedom, break free from Google and Apple. You can't escape it. Your friends and employers and banks use it. The state will soon mandate it for ID. It's the accepted worldwide compute platform, and you're being the nail that sticks out. Your usage is subject to breaking randomly, being unsupported, losing access or being banned by stepping outside the traffic lines, etc. They'll use attestation, certs an…

If a phone can make calls, send texts, read emails, and take pictures it already covers 98% of my use cases.

Bad analogy, but it will rhyme:

If a country can provide housing, roads, fire departments, public transit, etc. that might cover 98% of most people's use cases.

But perhaps that country is also fighting wars, committing genocide, perpetrating mass surveillance, propping up an oligarchy, manipulating currency, practicing authoritarianism, etc. ?

There might be points that need to be made and changes that need to be implemented, even if the average citizen or user doesn't directly see the impact or feel immediate exposure.

One of the reasons this is hard is that the general public doesn't understand the greater second and third order effects. And even if they do, they are typically inarticulate at expressing how this is dysregulated and dysfunctional to the broader economy and capitalism.

Luckily, there are plenty of very wealthy people that are disenfranchised by this that will loudly take up arms. Domestic competitors, business leaders, other impacted industries, etc. That's how and why this will change.

Tim Sweeney isn't the only one interested in this.

Re: Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone

#70

Post by chistev »

skc wrote: post #24

Many years later and I'm still bitter that the tech press laughed Windows Phone out of the room straight to its demise. Yes it had very little developer support but at some point things were looking up. It was just the butt of too many jokes from influential people. A third ecosystem right now would have been amazing

The phone was terrible.
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