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The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

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Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#141

Post by nswango »

cyberax wrote: post #50
hash872 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

> A shattering drug addiction crisis that at its height killed more people annually than the entire Vietnam War. Except that you're wrong. The war-on-drugs kept drugs under control. It did not _eliminate_ them, but they also were not available on every street corner. Once we stopped the war-on-drugs, the abuse rates skyrocketed. Not just opiods, but also meth. You can see it on the graphs in this article, the general…

This is complete rubbish. The peak years of the war on drugs had a variety of hard drugs available on street corners across all major cities.

At best it kept some amount of some drugs less visible in some suburbs and communities, while making it profitable for suppliers to cross those lines.

The main effect of the war on drugs was a level of incarceration outdoing almost any society in human history. The fact that the numbers jailed for victimless and quality of life 'crimes' kept going up is testament to the fact that there was hardly any effective deterrence.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#142

Post by ptrl600 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #123
ptrl600 wrote: post #70

Ephedrine isn't banned, not even behind a prescription, there's just rather strict limits on how much you can buy a month. I take a Bronkaid every morning with my coffee.

I have to ask, why are you consuming (pseudo?)ephedrine every morning?

Losing 5 pounds a month, 20 down and 10 to go.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#143

Post by 15155 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #3

Fantastic write up. I think the biggest takeaway for me is just how insanely ineffective banning pseudoephedrine over the counter was. Price went down, usage went up overdose went up, seizures went up, the production just changed quickly and there wasn’t even a blip. Billions of uses of bullshit decongestant products that didn’t work at all… and to get the good stuff you still need to buy it from behind the counter a…

> insanely ineffective banning pseudoephedrine

Limiting pseudoephedrine need not have effect on overall quantity to have huge positive societal effects. More P2P in industrial laboratories means less DIY Birch reductions in a soda bottle.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#144

Post by 15155 »

nerdsniper wrote: post #9
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #3

Fantastic write up. I think the biggest takeaway for me is just how insanely ineffective banning pseudoephedrine over the counter was. Price went down, usage went up overdose went up, seizures went up, the production just changed quickly and there wasn’t even a blip. Billions of uses of bullshit decongestant products that didn’t work at all… and to get the good stuff you still need to buy it from behind the counter a…

The other day I needed pseudoephedrine, so I asked for one box of instant tablets and one box of extended release capsules. The store said they’re only allowed to sell me one box so I had to choose. I’m so glad these policies made it so meth isn’t super easy to find anymore. Oh wait, meth is still dirt cheap fucking everywhere, but now I also can’t get effective cold medicine either. Can we please just admit this pol…

https://improbable.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Pseudoephe...

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#145

Post by dostick »

cyberax wrote: post #64
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

> The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance. The thing is, drugs are addictive. ESPECIALLY meth. How would you prevent people from just getting as much as they want and then becoming drug zombies? Fentanyl is similar. Cartels perfected its production, so now it's pure and widely available. It's even worse than meth in some rega…

Drugs are not addictive in a sense that they make person to go out and buy more. The only thing about drugs is that they are the best thing in that person’s life at the moment. Blaming drugs is as outdated as blaming npm package for vulnerability that some bad actor pushed into it.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#146

Post by SequoiaHope »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

I don’t think it’s fair to say we tried letting people access it for recreational or performance use. The insurance companies and doctors became drug pushers without an explicit acknowledgment of what was happening. Easy access to drugs without being able to discuss what was really happening is worse than prohibition sure, but that’s not informed consent. Informed consent is the patient tells the supplier what they’re doing and the supplier is trained to handle that. Our doctors are not drug shamen or addiction specialists, but we could imagine a situation where these are the people providing drugs, safe drug sites, and free counseling. Otherwise the solution is men with guns and weird geopolitical shit. Also the government gets to decide what drugs people can take which I disagree with in general. There has to be a better way.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#147

Post by nswango »

dostick wrote: post #145
cyberax wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance. The thing is, drugs are addictive. ESPECIALLY meth. How would you prevent people from just getting as much as they want and then becoming drug zombies? Fentanyl is similar. Cartels perfected its production, so now it's pure and widely available. It's even worse than meth in some rega…

Drugs are not addictive in a sense that they make person to go out and buy more. The only thing about drugs is that they are the best thing in that person’s life at the moment. Blaming drugs is as outdated as blaming npm package for vulnerability that some bad actor pushed into it.

Have you ever been an addict?

I have, and the argument that everyone addicted had some other issue going on is pretty pointless imho. Yes, they had some other issue, and now before fixing that issue they also have to deal with being a drug addict.

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#148

Post by nswango »

jona-f wrote: post #100
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

It's a pretty bad drug, I can see only disadvantages over plain amphetamine. If amphetamine isn't strong enough, you already have a serious problem. I'm not saying that criminalization is the right way, just that I don't see a responsible recreational/performance use for methamphetamine. It's too strong and too toxic. The regulation should permit only use for addiction management imho. Also, the long history is not e…

Does history record whether Hitler was using the good ol' giggles-and-joy pseudoephedrine meth or the evil psychosis-inducing P2P biker meth?

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#149

Post by autoexec »

hash872 wrote: post #34
keepamovin wrote: post #10

The ephedrine (or pseudoephedrine) synthesis is a one step using phosphorus/iodine reduction directly to methamphetamine. It’s simple and clean in that only an acid base extraction is required, and only one set of NP solvents. All these others syntheses with multiple steps up the chances of weird toxic solvents or contaminants creeping in. I think it’s a contaminant issue that’s exacerbated by the drug use. The gover…

>The government should just regulate it, control purity and production and let people access small amounts for recreation/performance Famously, the US spent about 15-20 years attempting this with opioids. They were widely available to people via a pseudo-medical process, or via secondhand dealing. Opioids were/are manufactured by regulated, publicly traded companies with inspectors who controlled purity and productio…

> When you make drugs legal & easy to get, lots & lots of people do them- who develop life-shattering addictions and OD en masse. They also build tolerance and then move on to even harder stuff.

That depends on the drug. Both it's addictiveness and its destructiveness. It's likely true for meth. I doubt it's true for weed. It's demonstrably not true for many of the OTC drugs that have been easy to get for hundreds of years without the collapse of society

Re: The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it (2021)

#150

Post by nswango »

jrflowers wrote: post #21
fwipsy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. "Go read this book" ain't it.

“I don’t feel like reading a book” isn’t a counter argument. That’s just a tidbit about how your day is going

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