Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#21

Post by tomisthemovie » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 5:21 PM UTC

Peroni wrote: post #20

tomisthemovie wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. The industry itself has become more and more corrupt over the years. However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush. There are people within the industry who are genuinely well versed and technically minded, and benefit from this. That's what I aspire to be like for however long I'm in this job for. But it's an uphill struggle. We're salespeople. No one gro…

However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush. I honestly used to think the exact same thing however I've quickly come to realise that the opposite is true. There are infinitely more shitty recruiters than decent ones but that's not to mean the shitty approach works. The very fact that you frequent HN is a big plus in your favour. HN was incredibly helpful and supportive of m…

I've read your blog and agree wholeheartedly with the points you've made about the industry. I think it's a case of being the underdog if you want to do the job properly. In an ideal world, I'd be recruiting for one of the clients I deal with. That'd be the perfect solution to the problems I have with the job right now. I'd be building my tech knowledge without (I assume) such aggressive targets and the constant barrage of failure (to put a bleak spin on it).

Alternatively, I'll just continue to learn to code until I get a job doing that with wherever I've made a placement. That's been a serious consideration of mine for a while now, but we're looking at another couple of years of working at it, and I don't think I've got it in me to stay in this job for that long!!

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#22

Post by tomisthemovie » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

Peroni wrote: post #16

tomisthemovie wrote: post #11

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

I agree with most of your points bar one: But for the most part a lot of recruiters have nothing but respect for developers and designers in the tech industry I worked as a tech recruiter in the UK for a number of years and that statement is categorically false. For the most part, recruiters haven't the first clue what developers do or how they can demand the salaries and contracting rates the market offers. For the…

Yeah, upon reflection, realising I was the only person who knew the difference between Java and Javascript was one of the more horrifying moments....

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#23

Post by tomjen3 » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 5:33 PM UTC

cliftonmckinney wrote: post #6

Peroni wrote: post #4

Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity Previously maybe. The trend towards acquiring internal recruitment teams is growing dramatically. Despite not actively looking for work, I've had four job offers for internal recruitment roles in the last 6-8 months. Remember that oftentimes by the time an employee comes to tell you he’s leaving it’s too late to retain him. I have to disagree. It's difficult to c…

The rise of internal recruiting teams is definitely promising. We work with a lot of companies that are smaller and/or growing at a slower rate and therefore can't justify a full time equivalent for recruiting. They're hiring maybe three or four people a year. For those kinds of orgs I think "making it a core activity" is just as important, and perhaps more difficult because they can't justify full time help. Good on…

The trick, when you can't afford good full time help is to look part time, or hire somebody on a retainer (which would be the best in your case, given that they probaly do need help at least full time when they are hiring).

And yes, you will pay more per hour going that route than the traditional full time. But lets be serious -- if you are hiring people the difference between 20k and 25k isn't that much.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#24

Post by tomjen3 » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 5:52 PM UTC

tomisthemovie wrote: post #18

kozmikyak wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself is inherently corrupt. The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge (enough to even _read_ resumes…

I completely agree. The industry itself has become more and more corrupt over the years. However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush. There are people within the industry who are genuinely well versed and technically minded, and benefit from this. That's what I aspire to be like for however long I'm in this job for. But it's an uphill struggle. We're salespeople. No one gro…

I doubt it is the case of the few -- it is much more likely to be the case of the vast, vast majority. If not, you would hear from the good ones far more often.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#25

Post by vonmoltke » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #17

kozmikyak wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In every "job advice" article I've ever read, the employee is warned NEVER to accept an offer to stay at the same job, for ANY reason at all, because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal". Seems funny to me that companies expect loyalty out of us, but provide nowhere to develop. I'd have been glad staying at my past two jobs if they'd continued challenging me. Instead, they started making poor use o…

because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal". Is this really true, though? I've heard it for so long and it's always had the air of received wisdom without facts (or even anecdata) to back it up.

I don't know how prevalent it really is, but I was once labeled "disloyal" for looking around at other internal positions. Needless to say, I got out of that company (though it did take almost a year from that incident to do so).

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#26

Post by rhizome » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 6:16 PM UTC

vonmoltke wrote: post #25

rhizome wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal". Is this really true, though? I've heard it for so long and it's always had the air of received wisdom without facts (or even anecdata) to back it up.

I don't know how prevalent it really is, but I was once labeled "disloyal" for looking around at other internal positions. Needless to say, I got out of that company (though it did take almost a year from that incident to do so).

A year? So even with an actual accusation of disloyalty it didn't affect your employment.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#27

Post by bartonfink » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 6:36 PM UTC

herge wrote: post #5

To anyone who gets harassed by clueless recruiters with doubtful job fillings, I have a much better idea than answering with angry or rude responses. Simply send them a stock email that tells them that you have had bad experiences with other recruiters and that to filter out the serious job offers from the shots in the dark, ask for 500$ before continuing any conversation. Do not remove yourself from the market, simp…

I've had similar results by informing recruiters that I'm planning on moving abroad in 2-3 years, and that I really don't want to switch jobs unless it directly furthers that goal. If I get even one recruiter who has contacts in New Zealand or Australia, that's a big win - otherwise, it politely tells them that I'm not on the U.S. job market.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#28

Post by ThomBush » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 6:54 PM UTC

herge wrote: post #5

To anyone who gets harassed by clueless recruiters with doubtful job fillings, I have a much better idea than answering with angry or rude responses. Simply send them a stock email that tells them that you have had bad experiences with other recruiters and that to filter out the serious job offers from the shots in the dark, ask for 500$ before continuing any conversation. Do not remove yourself from the market, simp…

You're not maintaining good relations to ask a recruiter to give you $500.. you're communicating that you have entitlement issues. Here's a possible helpful adjustment, if a recruiter is serious about representing you, ask them to write up a contract guaranteeing that they will donate $500 from the placement fee to the charity of your choice. If they fail to do so within 30 days of your starting date, then they are liable for the entire fee generated from your placement to be sent to the same charity. By doing it this way, you still know if they are serious, it's not about you getting money, and it helps society.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#29

Post by herge » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 6:55 PM UTC

Peroni wrote: post #7

herge wrote: post #5

To anyone who gets harassed by clueless recruiters with doubtful job fillings, I have a much better idea than answering with angry or rude responses. Simply send them a stock email that tells them that you have had bad experiences with other recruiters and that to filter out the serious job offers from the shots in the dark, ask for 500$ before continuing any conversation. Do not remove yourself from the market, simp…

You will never, ever get a single recruiter pay $500 to see your CV. If you really want to reduce the amount of recruiter spam then I suggest you change your linkedin privacy settings and if you have a personal site, make it crystal clear you aren't interested in hearing from recruiters. Any recruiter who continues to contact you after that has done one of two things: 1. Ignored the message on your site or 2. Found y…

> You will never, ever get a single recruiter pay $500 to see your CV.

Good, then. I have never found a job through a recruiter, always through word of mouth.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#30

Post by herge » Wed, Nov 21, 2012, 6:56 PM UTC

ThomBush wrote: post #28

herge wrote: post #5

To anyone who gets harassed by clueless recruiters with doubtful job fillings, I have a much better idea than answering with angry or rude responses. Simply send them a stock email that tells them that you have had bad experiences with other recruiters and that to filter out the serious job offers from the shots in the dark, ask for 500$ before continuing any conversation. Do not remove yourself from the market, simp…

You're not maintaining good relations to ask a recruiter to give you $500.. you're communicating that you have entitlement issues. Here's a possible helpful adjustment, if a recruiter is serious about representing you, ask them to write up a contract guaranteeing that they will donate $500 from the placement fee to the charity of your choice. If they fail to do so within 30 days of your starting date, then they are l…

A recruiter improves hist relation with his client for every good C.V. he sends. My time is not worthless, why should I let a recruiter profit from it?