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Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

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Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#791

Post by 12_throw_away »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #774
12_throw_away wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can always claim you would have used even more caution and process. Well, specifically, my claim is that any serious professional in this industry would have done so. But we're essentially in agreement, in the sense that yes, I am allowed to make this claim, and in fact already did, in the comment you are replying to. EDIT: Actually I've been thinking about this a bit more. The thing about commenting on somethi…

It's naive to think that only one set of trade-offs is the best one, because you can always argue for infinite process and caution. If this Rust rewrite goes relatively smoothly, you are completely wrong about the balance of trade-offs, but you probably won't admit that because the person advocating for more process sees themself in a zero-risk win-win position: A. The subject fails, thus you win because they should…

Yes, dear god, I get it, please stop repeating yourself. Besides starting right out of the gate with personal attacks, you've found 20 ways different to say "it's not fair to criticize something another person did because you're not taking the same risks as them".

This is a poor syllogism - the second clause does not follow from the first - and worse, it's extremely uninteresting. If you had a good argument to make about the actual topic at hand, you would have made it, but I guess you don't, since you've resorted to criticizing the concept of criticism itself. I will admit that it was dumb of me to engage with this in the first place (although I guess you didn't clock that I was making fun of you? which, frankly, tracks).

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#792

Post by 12_throw_away »

throwaway277432 wrote: post #721
12_throw_away wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can always claim you would have used even more caution and process. Well, specifically, my claim is that any serious professional in this industry would have done so. But we're essentially in agreement, in the sense that yes, I am allowed to make this claim, and in fact already did, in the comment you are replying to. EDIT: Actually I've been thinking about this a bit more. The thing about commenting on somethi…

> serious professional in this industry As a serious professional in the industry - we're dinosaurs. Nobody cares anymore. The kids are running the show and are making billions with stuff that doesn't work. But it makes money so nobody cares. This is not a new phenomenon, it started years ago and really took off when JS became the new hotness. You could see it happening live, right here on HN. But the blast radius is…

I'm not even necessarily describing myself as a serious professional - in many ways I'm adjacent to all this! But there's a contingent of people (and in real life, too, not just on HN) who get very angry at the very concept of professionalism itself.

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#793

Post by PufPufPuf »

gm678 wrote: post #249

$ rg 'unsafe [{]' src/ | wc -l 10428 $ rg 'unsafe [{]' src/ -l | wc -l 736 Language Files Lines Code Comments Blanks ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ Rust 1443 929213 732281 116293 80639 Zig 1298 711112 574563 59118 77431 TypeScript 2604 654684 510464 82254 61966 JavaScript 4370 364928 293211 36108 35609 C 111 305123 205875 79077 20171 C++ 586 262475 217111 19004 26360 C Header 779 100979…

So only about 50 % of source files now potentially contain unsafe code, compared to Zig where it's always 100 % ?

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#794

Post by aselbie »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #768
kenloef wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome.

Anthropic is unable to contribute to Zig due to new AI policy, Bun has to maintain a fork of Zig, the lead developer decided "what if I try Rust? can the model do this for me in a meaningful way?" is that so hard to believe? I've done it with Claude before this story was blown out of proportion. It's basically one of the strengths of language models. If you frequent any reverse engineering communities, a lot of break…

To be fair, nothing about Zig's policy prevents Anthropic from contributing. They would just have to write the code by hand like all the other contributors. Presumably those skills haven't completely atrophied.

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#795

Post by jd3 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #168
asciimoo wrote: post #163

Regardless the outcome, this is such a disrespectful move towards the huge amount of contributors who invested time and effort to learn the project and make it better. I hope the zig/dev community forks the project and continues the development. I'd rather use the fork than this project that has sacrificed its contributors for marketing purposes.

> this is such a disrespectful move towards the huge amount of contributors who invested time and effort to learn the project and make it better. What? How? You contribute to projects run by others with the understanding that others run the project, is this not the default assumption others have too when contributing to FOSS? Is it disrespectful if my proposed feature was merged, but then later was removed because th…

> You contribute to projects run by others with the understanding that others run the project, is this not the default assumption others have too when contributing to FOSS?

There are certain unspoken rules you don't break out of a of tradition of process and decorum — this decision broke that rule, overturning 5+ years of accrued experience and institutional memory, so I can understand why this might feel like a rugpull which would reasonably upset the average contributor.

These antics are acceptable in a BDFL project where the stakes are low, but try this in an actual major project with thousands of contributors and see how it goes.

I think the best case scenario I can think of is the microsoft typescript js->go conversion, whereas the bun zig->rust is probably the worst case.

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#797

Post by tuananh »

culi wrote: post #690
tuananh wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is their chance for sure but it seems they are scaling down, at least their main product Deno Deploy. Prev they have presence in 31 regions but now it's down to just 6 https://docs.deno.com/deploy/classic/regions/

Bun's rise over Deno is honestly shocking. One man's project that went viral because of some very misleading benchmarks has evolved into a behemoth in an incredibly short time frame. Some major projects bought into the benchmarks and adopted it for important projects and thus it was thrust into stardom. I was naive enough to believe Deno's ascendance was all but guaranteed with Ryan Dahl's name on it and the direly n…

the problem with Deno is probably because of the lack of npm packages compatibility.

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#798

Post by versecafe »

zx0r23 wrote: post #451
pronik wrote: post #242

By reading this thread I've learned that, apparently, you are not allowed to rewrite a large piece of software backed by a large test suite in another language within two weeks otherwise you are a witch and need to be burned on a stake. You are also not allowed to move from the PoC phase to lets-do-it phase within a couple of days without being called names. Why are we concerned with speed all of a sudden? Are we in…

Anyone running bun in production right now has to be sweating lol, this is a ridiculous change for a part of your software stack that really ought to be reliable.

Not sweating, just heavily regretting running a fork to shim zig code in and hard forking to focus on stability over meaningless features and flashy AI rewrites.

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#799

Post by fragmede »

famouswaffles wrote: post #571
fragmede wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where I accused Jarred of lying. All I'm saying is that 9 days is not very long.

The chain we're on and the comments I originally responded to have such concerns. And I mean, if it's not going to be reviewed by humans then really what makes 9 days too soon ? Should the code just sit there collecting dust until everyone agrees an arbitrary amount of time has passed ?

Yes! For the size of the change, I think 30 days would be okay. 3 months would be better. Run them in parallel. Take some time and iron out most of the kinks. Don't break shit people rely on!

Re: Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged

#800

Post by Capricorn2481 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #773
Capricorn2481 wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should place this energy with something like ripgrep, not a company with huge funding that actually depends on people using their product. Their whole thing is convincing you to use Bun over Node.

so...don't be convinced? Use Node if you prefer Node's governance style. Or Deno? If they "depend" on people using their product, then surely all their paying customers will be happy to pay them whatever it costs to maintain the Zig-version-Bun that matters so dearly to them. They will see the folly of this rewrite and follow the money back to Zig.

> so...don't be convinced? Use Node if you prefer Node's governance style. Or Deno?

This is a thread full of people saying they aren't convinced and would prefer to use Node/Deno, and that was enough for you to call them entitled and shame them. Your comment doesn't really read like a FOSS advocate, it reads like you're running interference.

Whether you like it or not, Bun actually does care about carving out an audience, and this thread has a lot of useful feedback for them on how they run the project. When people are concerned about the stability of your runtime, if the best defense that can be mustered is "tough shit, it's free," that's damning in itself.

I also think you overestimate the Zig fandom. We could be talking about completely different languages and the response would be the same because it's not about the languages.

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