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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#161

Post by neilv »

> It has already submitted forum posts and social media evidence showing some users employing the system to disable emissions controls.

Is right-to-repair going to get scrod by illegal activity, like everyone got scrod by media piracy?

We knew we'd get scrod back when MP3 piracy started, and many people were warned what would happen, but they still did it, and it played out just like was warned.

Illegal activity creates both reason and pretext for forcibly taking away what should be rights. And those rights will be forcibly taken away, for both reasons. Often by crappy people, because you either forced their hand, or you handed the pretext to them on a silver platter.

This is one reason for tech freedom advocates to fully appreciate that they're operating in a political context, so that they're a sustainable positive force, not a counterproductive one.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#162

Post by wavemode »

lapetitejort wrote: post #23

I am surprised that a lawsuit started in 2021 about maintaining emission standards survived up to this point. The DOGE search terms must have misspelled "emission"

I had the same thought. I suspect this lawsuit will be dropped once they notice.

Probably if the appmaker donates to the Trump foundation it will be withdrawn within the day.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#163

Post by traderj0e »

AngryData wrote: post #126
traderj0e wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't buy that those are actually clean. EU has always had majority high-MPG non-diesel cars that you also don't see here as often, simply because gas is cheap in the US. People complain that it's expensive but then 2/3 times go buy a truck or SUV anyway.

How much of the new car market is represented by the average person though? If 70% of the population wants fuel economy but only 10% of the population can afford new cars it is easy to see how the wealthier new car buyers can shape what cars are even available to the average person. Buying a user car in the US gives limited offers for super and turbo charged vehicles, and many turbo cars will want turbo maintence whe…

That's a good point, but it looks like the top-selling used cars are trucks and SUVs too. It's possible on the face of it that this is just because they retain less value than efficient cars and buyers are weighing that vs the cost of gas, but doesn't seem like it from the pricing I've seen.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#164

Post by whalesalad »

midtake wrote: post #93

This "car-tinkering app" is used as a glorified GameShark for deleting factory emissions controls, I don't feel sorry for anyone who uses this to roll coal or whatever. Instead of investigating everyone on the list of users of this app, should the government instead ban diesel engines knowing their emissions controls software will be defeated? Should environmental regulations be relaxed? What is really the solution h…

federal and state governments buy and operate diesel vehicles without emissions controls because of how bad they are in critical situations. rules for thee but not for me.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#165

Post by KennyBlanken »

cogman10 wrote: post #21
embedding-shape wrote: post #3

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

Yeah, I'd HAPPILY report every single truck rolling coal around me if there was a place to report that information. Hell, I've seen a truck roll coal around cop cars and, obviously, nothing happened. This is just gross privacy intrusion masquerading as "protecting the environment". We don't need 100% compliance to the law and simple prosecution/ticketing of obvious violations would go a long way towards solving the p…

The only masquerading is some basic OBD functions slapped onto an app that is entirely designed for the sole purpose of installing emissions evasion firmware. Most of the reviews brag about it, even.

And do you really think they're HQ'd in the caymans by coincidence? No. It's to avoid any repercussions.

You can get similar basic OBD functions from any of a dozen free apps on iOS or Android that do that all far better and for a few dollars.

FFS they even sell another app for editing (ie falsifying) electronic driver logs.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#166

Post by AnthonyMouse »

ericmay wrote: post #157
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How else do you get what might be illegal products off the shelves? Your premise is that there is a difference in the product. The product is a piece of hardware that connects your phone/laptop to the car's computer. Are you using it to program the computer to bleed the brakes, or are you using it to program the computer to defeat emissions tests? It's the same hardware dongle either way. A roll of duct tape isn't…

Your understanding about how this works is incorrect, I think that's the problem. If a product being sold is primarily being used for a purpose which violates the law and does not otherwise have fair usage the government can and has pursued and won legal cases resulting in the product being banned. That is no different here. The reason for interviewing consumers is to help determine what the product is being used for…

> If the vast majority of the time the roll of duct tape was used in the commission of a crime, it absolutely could and likely would be banned.

Which continues to be an absurd premise. So if the original use case for duct tape was kidnappings then it should be forever banned because a sample taken at that time had that statistical distribution, and thereafter no other uses can be adopted because it's banned?

It seems a lot more reasonable to prosecute kidnappers rather than the makers of generic tools.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#167

Post by tedd4u »

spike021 wrote: post #146
kstrauser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a pickup roll coal in the middle of freaking East Bay, literally within site of downtown San Francisco, on a bicyclist. I reported their license to the California Air Resources Board, and not longer after that I saw it up on jacks in a neighborhood auto shop. That made my day. Asshole.

I had a neighbor with a car they clearly wouldn't fix that desperately needed a smog check. reported them also. they moved away shortly after though, so i'm not sure if CARB ever followed through.

I got a nastygram from CARB once for something like that. I think they follow up.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#168

Post by dylan604 »

kstrauser wrote: post #34
cogman10 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd HAPPILY report every single truck rolling coal around me if there was a place to report that information. Hell, I've seen a truck roll coal around cop cars and, obviously, nothing happened. This is just gross privacy intrusion masquerading as "protecting the environment". We don't need 100% compliance to the law and simple prosecution/ticketing of obvious violations would go a long way towards solving the p…

I watched a pickup roll coal in the middle of freaking East Bay, literally within site of downtown San Francisco, on a bicyclist. I reported their license to the California Air Resources Board, and not longer after that I saw it up on jacks in a neighborhood auto shop. That made my day. Asshole.

I'm in Texas, and I get coal rolled multiple times a year while I'm riding my bike. One asshat actually hit my shoulder with his extended mirror. After that, I started using my GoPro as a dashcam since I wasn't able to get the asshat's license plate number.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#169

Post by mzajc »

EGreg wrote: post #6
squibonpig wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish that article wasn't extremely ai written

What would that improve in this case?

It would be written by a human.

From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html:

> Don't post generated comments or AI-edited comments. HN is for conversation between humans.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#170

Post by hack1312 »

embedding-shape wrote: post #3

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

Cynical hat: they think they can use this case to establish precedent to later compel unmasking a different set of users.
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