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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us are already doing this. My main phone is a Google Pixel 8 running LineageOS 23.2 with F-Droid, microG, and Aurora Store installed. For things requiring Play Integrity, I picked up a $20 burner carrier-locked Motorola phone at Walmart for $30. It's WiFi-only, given that I'm never going to pay for service on it, but I can also tether it to my main phone. It's also useful for writing one-star reviews on apps…

>For things requiring Play Integrity, I picked up a $20 burner carrier-locked Motorola phone at Walmart for $30.` So it's a $30 burner phone, not $20?

Doesn't matter, it's still just $40.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#122

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

Yeah, I'd HAPPILY report every single truck rolling coal around me if there was a place to report that information. Hell, I've seen a truck roll coal around cop cars and, obviously, nothing happened. This is just gross privacy intrusion masquerading as "protecting the environment". We don't need 100% compliance to the law and simple prosecution/ticketing of obvious violations would go a long way towards solving the p…

They are probably owned by off duty police

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#123
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect there is a bit of parallel construction going on They might already know for a fact that illegitimate use cases are the primary use case, they just cannot use any of their evidence in court So they are seeking a way to legally obtain the information they already have, basically It's shady but my understanding is it happens kind of a lot in modern policing. They can get illegal information much easier than l…

I wonder if they will use this case (depending on how it turns out), for a case against 3d printers. "You knowingly enabled $XYZ", etc. Or AI companies, for that matter...

The supreme court struck that down for the Sony case. It was determined that since ISPs do not offer a service that is used specifically to break the law, they are not liable when their customers do. It would be the same argument here. the app is literally just an ODB tool, like many others on the market.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#124
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I also absolutely loath the coal-rollers and everything about what they do, and if I could snap my fingers and have them lose both their trucks and their licenses to drive with no other consequences beyond their frustration, I'd do it. Nevertheless, we cannot allow this good reason for which be both agree to be used as a wedge to let the state just wholesale collect data for whatever reason they want. Very soon,…

But this isn’t actually to throw the coal rollers in jail and take away their trucks it’s to get witnesses so they can build a case to get this mod taken off the market

This is a lie. This is a way to get Apple and Google to not resist handing over bulk user data. Next it will be protest apps, or end-to-end encrypted messaging apps that aren't backdoored like iMessage is (e.g. Signal).

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a driver in a Ford F-150 do this in front of me last week as he pulled away from a light. The smoke totally blacked out the windshield for 5 seconds while I was in motion. I was totally blinded by this. I had no idea this was a thing, much less that it was something people did on purpose.

I wish they'd go back to just hanging plastic testicles from the trailer hitch, honestly.

Something like these? https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/1h82ja1/new_generati...

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#126

These vehicle emissions laws are almost always fake compliance theater and were dreamed up by idiots. They are a huge drag on the economy and achieve absolutely nothing. For example, the reason we don’t have super efficient turbodiesel subcompacts that are perfectly legal in the EU is thanks to the so called “Clean” air act. Since the law is based on vehicle weight I can go buy a 8,000 pound truck and commute to work…

I don't buy that those are actually clean. EU has always had majority high-MPG non-diesel cars that you also don't see here as often, simply because gas is cheap in the US. People complain that it's expensive but then 2/3 times go buy a truck or SUV anyway.

How much of the new car market is represented by the average person though? If 70% of the population wants fuel economy but only 10% of the population can afford new cars it is easy to see how the wealthier new car buyers can shape what cars are even available to the average person. Buying a user car in the US gives limited offers for super and turbo charged vehicles, and many turbo cars will want turbo maintence when they hit the used market with lower availability of turbo experienced mechanics.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#127
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (how will they know who to interview if they can't get the data? duh!) What I don't understand is how they know someone has to be interviewed, but they don't already know who, which makes me question how the investigation got started in the first place? > How else would the DOJ obtain evidence if they don't know who is buying the product? The question is, how did the investigation got started, unless they already c…

The case is against EZLynk, not the folks using the product. > The question is, how did the investigation got started, unless they already can see that people are misusing the product? And since they obviously must be able to see that people are misusing it, why don't they instead obtain evidence about those specific users, that they must have observed already? Well you'd have to get into the legal case for the speci…

> How else do you get what might be illegal products off the shelves?

Your premise is that there is a difference in the product.

The product is a piece of hardware that connects your phone/laptop to the car's computer. Are you using it to program the computer to bleed the brakes, or are you using it to program the computer to defeat emissions tests? It's the same hardware dongle either way. A roll of duct tape isn't a different product when it's being used in the commission of a crime.

You can try to prosecute companies that actually ship the thing with software to defeat emissions, but that doesn't really do any good. People would just get the generic hardware from the store and the defeat software from anonymous third parties over the internet.

If you actually want to stop it, try one of these: The old style emissions tests, where they put the car on a dyno with an exhaust probe, have been mostly phased out because the equipment is a lot more expensive. Keep some of it around. Then when someone goes in for their emissions test, roll a D20 and if they get a 1 their vehicle is taking a trip to the full service facility and if the exhaust probe says something different than the car's computer their car gets a free forensic analysis to check for a defeat device. Finding one means jail time.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#128
There are HN commenters ("developers") that want readers to believe that telemetry should be on by default. Maybe some readers, e.g., other "developers", think, "Yeah, that sounds reasonable" so long as the telemetry collecter is a random "developer" and not the government. But they probably fail to consider that this collected data is just a subpoena away from going to the government

Corporate mobile operating systems suck. Including "apps" to run on them, generally

There are some that do not require corporate approval and do not try to phone home but it's a relatively small fraction

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#129
post #29
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just write it yourself? We can all have ChatGPT regurgitate the same information. You're supposed to add value, editorializing isn't enough. Just like I don't want to look at AI art or listen to AI music, I don't want to read AI written blogslop. The web is now full of shit. What a waste.

Writing it myself would mean doing the research myself. How would I do that? ChatGPT can do it faster at scale. Then the summaries are short enough that cutting any particular part wouldn't make sense. I could re-word it, I guess. Why don't you write all your assembly code yourself? Why do you use a compiler? Why do you generate images, when you can draw them yourself? You're supposed to add value. I don't think prep…

> Writing it myself would mean doing the research myself. How would I do that?

This is why you should write things yourself. There is no way an AI would write something so insane in response to that question. Since I can now read your true understanding of the world, I know not to waste my time on your ai slop. I have no reason to believe you fact checked the 'research' done using AI if you cant even understand how the research should have been done in the first place. You want to waste the time of others but arent even willing to sacrifice a bit yourself.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a driver in a Ford F-150 do this in front of me last week as he pulled away from a light. The smoke totally blacked out the windshield for 5 seconds while I was in motion. I was totally blinded by this. I had no idea this was a thing, much less that it was something people did on purpose.

I wish they'd go back to just hanging plastic testicles from the trailer hitch, honestly.

Maybe they finally realized that they had been giving their trucks gender affirming care.
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