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U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

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101–110 of 381 posts

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#101

> The government says it needs this information to identify and interview witnesses who can testify about how the tools were actually used. Why start this whole thing, if you don't already have this information and have people willing to help you as witnesses? Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? Rather than finding every user of th…

My guess: they want to make the case that illegitimate use cases are indeed the primary use case. Their approach is to randomly sample all users and show that the vast majority use it to defeat emissions, undermining the app maker’s defence. I don’t think that justifies the overreach. As you said, if they don’t have a case already, they shouldn’t be allowed to violate user privacy on speculation that some statistical…

I suspect there is a bit of parallel construction going on

They might already know for a fact that illegitimate use cases are the primary use case, they just cannot use any of their evidence in court

So they are seeking a way to legally obtain the information they already have, basically

It's shady but my understanding is it happens kind of a lot in modern policing. They can get illegal information much easier than legal information. So the illegal information sort of forms the justification for the time and money spent pursuing and gathering the same information legally

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sounds to me they're saying they don't have this already, but why is this investigation happening in the first place then? They probably have tons of data and testimony from witnesses who use the product illegally. You can find hundreds of threads online of people telling you how to defeat emissions controls using their products. The case prosecutors want to make is that EZ Lynk knowingly enables this behavior. If…

> If they can show that the majority of users are committing crimes with the app, that's a much stronger case than just rounding up a handful of witnesses. I still don't understand why this should even be relevant in cases like this. The thing is basically a generic OBD dongle, right? The same thing every DIY and shade tree mechanic uses to read codes and run service procedures. Suppose 20,000 people buy it and use i…

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Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#103
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it will continue to work just fine. The restrictions are being added to Google Play Services, not Android itself. I and many others do not run closed source software like Google Play Services on our devices.

And how long do you think that window will remain open? I expect anyone not running a closed system (hardware attestation) is going to not only be locked out of things like banking apps, government apps, etc., but also if Google has its way, you’ll be prevented from accessing those things on the web as well, maybe even from your desktop. We just saw that story a few days ago with them replacing CAPTCHA tech with “pro…

Forever, honestly. I don't see things actually becoming as closed as you predict. I will avoid banks that require me to do any of that (I already don't use any that report to credit agencies, avoiding ones that don't work on the web browser is much easier). There is about 1 site I use that uses the google captcha and that is archive.today, I will swiftly stop using it if I can't use it with open software, and I doubt they would keep it around in that case anyway.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#104
It will start with subpoenaing this information against people who modified their car to do "bad" things. But once they have the precedent, I would predict that it will very quickly be used at the behest of car manufacturers to go after people who modify their cars to, say, disable GPS tracking.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#105
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people doing the downvoting are different people from the whiners. I'm one of the whiners. That's kinda fair, like it's still useful to prepare a list, but it's also like if you didn't go research your information yourself why would I start from a position of charitability when I read it? When I research something with LLMs, I know to double-check everything myself before I use it as a basis for my thought or rep…

You might like my new startup, then: https://safebots.ai I spent way too much time on actually building this — with Claude and double checking everything — so an article I publish can be OK to push out. We aren’t building a bridge for thousands of cars here, it’s an article. A lot of things are automated and 95% of the time they are correct. The key is knowing whether the last mile is worth fixing, if the consequence…

I read through your presentation but I still feel pretty confused about what ur startup does. Could you explain it?

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those, like me, who aren't familiar with the term "rolling coal": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

I had a driver in a Ford F-150 do this in front of me last week as he pulled away from a light. The smoke totally blacked out the windshield for 5 seconds while I was in motion. I was totally blinded by this. I had no idea this was a thing, much less that it was something people did on purpose.

I wish they'd go back to just hanging plastic testicles from the trailer hitch, honestly.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#107
So if someone used this app to do something illegal with his car (rolling coal or otherwise), is he really going to testify in court that he did this? The lawsuit is only against EZ Lynk, but it's conceivable that he could face his own consequences later.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#108
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I also absolutely loath the coal-rollers and everything about what they do, and if I could snap my fingers and have them lose both their trucks and their licenses to drive with no other consequences beyond their frustration, I'd do it. Nevertheless, we cannot allow this good reason for which be both agree to be used as a wedge to let the state just wholesale collect data for whatever reason they want. Very soon,…

But this isn’t actually to throw the coal rollers in jail and take away their trucks it’s to get witnesses so they can build a case to get this mod taken off the market

Yes. Supposedly they aren’t going to prosecute those people, though if I were them, I wouldn’t trust that promise.

But if they get this thing taken off the market, that’s a huge loss for all of us because there are a ton of things this type of tool enables, many of them things people like us would be very interested in. Such as disabling privacy-invasive telematics, or disabling features like stop start, which I can personally attest has caused significant repair issues with the engine on my last car.

Having access to a tool like this is to a car what having an administrator account is on a PC. Without it, you are merely a guest, not an owner of the system.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#109
post #93

This "car-tinkering app" is used as a glorified GameShark for deleting factory emissions controls, I don't feel sorry for anyone who uses this to roll coal or whatever. Instead of investigating everyone on the list of users of this app, should the government instead ban diesel engines knowing their emissions controls software will be defeated? Should environmental regulations be relaxed? What is really the solution h…

They want testimonies to use against the app. The solution they're trying to pursue is to outlaw the app, not investigate its users.

Re: U.S. DOJ demands Apple and Google unmask over 100k users of car-tinkering app

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those, like me, who aren't familiar with the term "rolling coal": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal

I had a driver in a Ford F-150 do this in front of me last week as he pulled away from a light. The smoke totally blacked out the windshield for 5 seconds while I was in motion. I was totally blinded by this. I had no idea this was a thing, much less that it was something people did on purpose.

https://old.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/1tdj76y/oc_id...

Many more:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/search/?q=coal&restric...

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