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DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

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Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#11

Post by saberience »

shivang2607 wrote: post #4

In my personal experience, no model comes close to claude when it comes to coding performance. It does not matter what any of the benchmarks says. Having said that I really hope this model of deepseek, performs significantly on par with the claude saunnet model.

This is kinda FUD. Claude really isn’t that good compared to Codex firstly and if you combine the latest DeepSeek model with any good coding harness the results are surprisingly comparable to Claude Code.

I would say DeepSeek is definitely behind compared to Codex but Claude doesn’t and hasn’t impressed me for some time now. It writes way too much code when it doesn’t need to in a fashion that gradually rots your codebase.

Codex is the only model I’ve used which will regularly remove more code than it adds or make a fix or feature by adding a single line of code or otherwise do minimal working changes.

Claude is the model which can get the feature working by adding two new classes, 20 new methods and 2000 lines of code, when it actually needed to remove 500 lines of code and add two new methods.

Claude will also often refactor by adding tons of new code and using it while not deleting any of the old code.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#12

Post by ticulatedspline »

Our_Benefactors wrote: post #7
shivang2607 wrote: post #4

In my personal experience, no model comes close to claude when it comes to coding performance. It does not matter what any of the benchmarks says. Having said that I really hope this model of deepseek, performs significantly on par with the claude saunnet model.

Codex is good now. I’m undecided which is better, but they’re definitely close enough that I feel comfortable recommending Claude-exclusive people in my circle to try codex.

Is there a good 4th option yet? I haven't really been impressed by what I've tried so far.

I believe Claude Code only works with claude and seems all I hear about that is it's great but the token limits are so anemic as to make it useless unless you want to shell out $200+ a month, which I do not so I haven't bothered.

I tried codex but it wouldn't run out-of-the-box. Installation on a fresh Windows box resulted in some obscure error which is a strong "this product isn't fully baked" signal.

Open code desktop thus far has been the only turn-key solution, worked right away on it's pickle model but was a real pain to hook to anything else. It exhibits a lot of the typical obtuse UX that open source projects end up with since open source tends to attract coders-developers more than UX/UI people. At least it does mention that it's still beta.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#13

Post by IXCoach »

saberience wrote: post #11
shivang2607 wrote: post #4

In my personal experience, no model comes close to claude when it comes to coding performance. It does not matter what any of the benchmarks says. Having said that I really hope this model of deepseek, performs significantly on par with the claude saunnet model.

This is kinda FUD. Claude really isn’t that good compared to Codex firstly and if you combine the latest DeepSeek model with any good coding harness the results are surprisingly comparable to Claude Code. I would say DeepSeek is definitely behind compared to Codex but Claude doesn’t and hasn’t impressed me for some time now. It writes way too much code when it doesn’t need to in a fashion that gradually rots your cod…

Fascinating, Claude outperforms codex in my coding setup by 5X to 10X, its not even close. Interesting that your claiming the opposite is a general fact here, if i take you literally at your word. Codex has been so bad, in fact, that while I was maintaining a $200/m sub I literally did not even "use it up" while paying for it, ( after cancelling ).

But that was 3 months ago, have not tried it since, they could have grown.

To be fair, I think what you are meaning, if I drop the literal frame here, is this, tell me if I am right:

Codex > Claude in my setup.

that right?

To be fair, my tests were not apples to apples. I have sophisticated agent alignment harnesses which prevent claude from hallucinating or going off the rails, ( not literally, not 100% = about 80% less hallucination, about 90% less drift, and about 98% more starting from crystal clear intent.

And in my personal tests, codex was not calibrated to use those systems, it had them but would have needed to find them.

Also I am in a massive project, next ai labs, ixcoach, with likely in the range of 20k files of code, 100x files of docs...

It could just be my agent alignment harness thats making claude outperform codex. Looking into testing it on the major benchmarks and publishing the results.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#14

Post by ay »

IXCoach wrote: post #13
saberience wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kinda FUD. Claude really isn’t that good compared to Codex firstly and if you combine the latest DeepSeek model with any good coding harness the results are surprisingly comparable to Claude Code. I would say DeepSeek is definitely behind compared to Codex but Claude doesn’t and hasn’t impressed me for some time now. It writes way too much code when it doesn’t need to in a fashion that gradually rots your cod…

Fascinating, Claude outperforms codex in my coding setup by 5X to 10X, its not even close. Interesting that your claiming the opposite is a general fact here, if i take you literally at your word. Codex has been so bad, in fact, that while I was maintaining a $200/m sub I literally did not even "use it up" while paying for it, ( after cancelling ). But that was 3 months ago, have not tried it since, they could have g…

Both you and parent could be right.

There is a fun term “jagged frontier”.

Meaning: one model can be much better than the other one in one thing, and much worse than the other in another thing.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#15

Post by IXCoach »

ay wrote: post #14
IXCoach wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating, Claude outperforms codex in my coding setup by 5X to 10X, its not even close. Interesting that your claiming the opposite is a general fact here, if i take you literally at your word. Codex has been so bad, in fact, that while I was maintaining a $200/m sub I literally did not even "use it up" while paying for it, ( after cancelling ). But that was 3 months ago, have not tried it since, they could have g…

Both you and parent could be right. There is a fun term “jagged frontier”. Meaning: one model can be much better than the other one in one thing, and much worse than the other in another thing.

[flagged]

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#16

Post by wett »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #12
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Codex is good now. I’m undecided which is better, but they’re definitely close enough that I feel comfortable recommending Claude-exclusive people in my circle to try codex.

Is there a good 4th option yet? I haven't really been impressed by what I've tried so far. I believe Claude Code only works with claude and seems all I hear about that is it's great but the token limits are so anemic as to make it useless unless you want to shell out $200+ a month, which I do not so I haven't bothered. I tried codex but it wouldn't run out-of-the-box. Installation on a fresh Windows box resulted in s…

I liked Zed’s agent as a harness. It’s LLM agnostic. My org just got GitHub Copilot and I use it as the API provider for requests.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#17

Post by killingtime74 »

Lucasoato wrote: post #8

Do you know what kind of machine do I need to run the original DeepSeek v4 pro model with a good tok/s throughput?

You don't need a machine. You need a rack of them. 1.34TB VRAM https://wavespeed.ai/blog/posts/deepseek-v4-gpu-vram-require...

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#18

Post by DeathArrow »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #12
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Codex is good now. I’m undecided which is better, but they’re definitely close enough that I feel comfortable recommending Claude-exclusive people in my circle to try codex.

Is there a good 4th option yet? I haven't really been impressed by what I've tried so far. I believe Claude Code only works with claude and seems all I hear about that is it's great but the token limits are so anemic as to make it useless unless you want to shell out $200+ a month, which I do not so I haven't bothered. I tried codex but it wouldn't run out-of-the-box. Installation on a fresh Windows box resulted in s…

>I believe Claude Code only works with claude and seems all I hear about that is it's great but the token limits are so anemic as to make it useless unless you want to shell out $200+ a month, which I do not so I haven't bothered.

I use Claude Code with GLM 5.q, Kimi K2.6, MiniMax M2.7 and Xiaomi MiMo V2.5 Pro.

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#19

Post by [deleted] »

IXCoach wrote: post #13
saberience wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kinda FUD. Claude really isn’t that good compared to Codex firstly and if you combine the latest DeepSeek model with any good coding harness the results are surprisingly comparable to Claude Code. I would say DeepSeek is definitely behind compared to Codex but Claude doesn’t and hasn’t impressed me for some time now. It writes way too much code when it doesn’t need to in a fashion that gradually rots your cod…

Fascinating, Claude outperforms codex in my coding setup by 5X to 10X, its not even close. Interesting that your claiming the opposite is a general fact here, if i take you literally at your word. Codex has been so bad, in fact, that while I was maintaining a $200/m sub I literally did not even "use it up" while paying for it, ( after cancelling ). But that was 3 months ago, have not tried it since, they could have g…

[deleted]

Re: DeepSeek V4: The Open-Source Model Frontier Labs Feared

#20

Post by Alifatisk »

chid wrote: post #6
superasn wrote: post #5

I think that is sale pricing at 75% discount till end of May only.

still a lot cheaper, seems wild that it is basically like the price of Gemma 4

That's insane pricing https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing
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