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Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

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11–20 of 36 posts

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#11
I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it makes me better at my job. If I can understand a company's requirements better than 90% of other recruiters ringing them up, then that benefits them, the candidate whose CV I'm representing, and me.

Now, I know that a lot of developers have had bad experiences with recruiters. I've had bad experiences with recruiters, when I was looking for a job out of university. You see, in the UK at least, a lot of recruitment consultants are graduates like me who couldn't find a relevant job in their field of interest, or one that bore any relationship to their degree. So instead we got caught up in the recruitment industry, which offers a salary, office experience, and the potential to (allegedly)earn some money. The majority of us are as confused as you are as to why we're here, but those of us who are still doing it after 3 months are probably doing it because there's something in it they enjoy, or they've been lucky enough to keep it.

I get that there's bastards in the industry. There's bastards in every industry. And the tech industry isn't the only one beset by recruiters. I used to work in social housing recruitment, where we were actually liked by those people we were trying to find jobs for. To go from that, to an industry where we are seen as 'the scum of the earth' (which I saw on this site), 'evil bottom feeders' and 'fucking idiots' came as a shock to me.

I'm not asking you to all suddenly start getting lovey dovey with us. This won't change many peoples mind. But be aware that on the other end of the phone is probably a young graduate, terrified out of his mind, who has been thrust into an industry he doesn't know anything about, and expected to hit some ridiculous targets in order to keep his job. A lot of the time, his only mistake has been accepting a job when he didn't have one. Recruitment preys on the desperate, lost demographic of graduates.

So yes, every industry has its shits. But for the most part a lot of recruiters have nothing but respect for developers and designers in the tech industry. Hell, we're scared of you most of the time. You guys possess talent that we can only dream of having, and pretty much make the world go round. All we're doing is helping you find a job.

tl;dr Recruiters are people too. Not all of us are the 'scum of the earth'. Some of us are just trying to get by until we either get better at this job or find another one. We're not all out to screw you over.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#12
post #4

Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity Previously maybe. The trend towards acquiring internal recruitment teams is growing dramatically. Despite not actively looking for work, I've had four job offers for internal recruitment roles in the last 6-8 months. Remember that oftentimes by the time an employee comes to tell you he’s leaving it’s too late to retain him. I have to disagree. It's difficult to c…

In every "job advice" article I've ever read, the employee is warned NEVER to accept an offer to stay at the same job, for ANY reason at all, because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal".

Seems funny to me that companies expect loyalty out of us, but provide nowhere to develop. I'd have been glad staying at my past two jobs if they'd continued challenging me. Instead, they started making poor use of my time (getting me to be a data entry monkey despite years of sysadmin and software engineering experience because I was the fastest typist they knew and was "around"). They paid too much for their use of that skill, and we both knew it, and I left, and I hear mumblings and incantations to the effect that they never wanted me to leave. Well, show it.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#13
post #4

Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity Previously maybe. The trend towards acquiring internal recruitment teams is growing dramatically. Despite not actively looking for work, I've had four job offers for internal recruitment roles in the last 6-8 months. Remember that oftentimes by the time an employee comes to tell you he’s leaving it’s too late to retain him. I have to disagree. It's difficult to c…

Steve, I read all over the place that employees who take counter-offers are usually gone within the year anyway. Is this because the employees talked themselves to into staying in an unhealthy situation or because the employers are simply keeping them around long enough to replace them with someone without the demonstrated propensity to shop around? I've never actually been in this situation so I'm curious what insig…

Steve, I read all over the place that employees who take counter-offers are usually gone within the year anyway.

More often than not this is usually the case. It's all contextual but if you take one of the more common reasons for leaving (being offered a better salary/opportunity elsewhere) the employers reaction tends to be an instant promotion and a reasonable salary increase to match.

Money is rarely the sole factor in peoples decision to move on and over time the underlying issues become more and more prominent.

As mentioned below, I'm going to put together a blog on the issue tomorrow as it's a bit too lengthy to get into it here so keep an eye out.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#14

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself is inherently corrupt.

The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge (enough to even _read_ resumes) towards impersonal, technically uneducated HR departments, out to tech recruiters who often are even worse at keyword searching than the HR departments, has been to the detriment of the job market.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#15

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

There are definitely good ones out there. And those that take the time to learn to write a little code have a much better chance of being on that list. We know a few good ones too. Few and far between, but clearly possible.

One thing I didn't mention in the post is that, in a lot of cases, the incentive system for recruiters isn't necessarily aligned with the best interests of the companies and developers they work with. Recruiters are a bit like sell side realtors. The incentive for them is to push a lot of product. So, as a sell side realtor, my financial incentive pushes me to accept the first offer that comes through, whether it's a low ball or not, and move along. Only rarely do I dismiss that financial incentive for the benefit of my client, because 6% of $300k isn't much different than 6% of $320k.

So, it's actually irrational for recruiters to spend a lot of time finding the perfect employee for their client, or the perfect job for their recruit, if it takes more time than normal.

Unless, of course, you take a longer term view. Longer term, highly successful placements mean that you get more clients and more high quality recruits. But, again, it's hard to think long term when we change careers so often.

Glad to know you're one of the good ones.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#16

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

I agree with most of your points bar one: But for the most part a lot of recruiters have nothing but respect for developers and designers in the tech industry

I worked as a tech recruiter in the UK for a number of years and that statement is categorically false. For the most part, recruiters haven't the first clue what developers do or how they can demand the salaries and contracting rates the market offers. For the most part recruiters view developers & designers as arrogant and self-righteous. Only recruiters who genuinely understand the divide between recruiters & developers and understand what developers face on a day to day basis tend to show or possess any respect.

We call the latter 'the good ones' and they are incredibly rare but they do exist.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#17
post #4

Recruiting and hiring isn’t considered a core activity Previously maybe. The trend towards acquiring internal recruitment teams is growing dramatically. Despite not actively looking for work, I've had four job offers for internal recruitment roles in the last 6-8 months. Remember that oftentimes by the time an employee comes to tell you he’s leaving it’s too late to retain him. I have to disagree. It's difficult to c…

In every "job advice" article I've ever read, the employee is warned NEVER to accept an offer to stay at the same job, for ANY reason at all, because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal". Seems funny to me that companies expect loyalty out of us, but provide nowhere to develop. I'd have been glad staying at my past two jobs if they'd continued challenging me. Instead, they started making poor use o…

because the employer will no longer see the employee as "loyal".

Is this really true, though? I've heard it for so long and it's always had the air of received wisdom without facts (or even anecdata) to back it up.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#18

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself is inherently corrupt. The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge (enough to even _read_ resumes…

I completely agree. The industry itself has become more and more corrupt over the years. However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush. There are people within the industry who are genuinely well versed and technically minded, and benefit from this. That's what I aspire to be like for however long I'm in this job for. But it's an uphill struggle.

We're salespeople. No one grows up wanting to be a salesperson. I've got a degree in Classical Civilization. I have no idea why I've ended up as a salesperson. But I don't think that should make me a bad person just because I put as much effort as possible into my current job. I'm not looking to completely change the view of the industry, just to show more of a human side to it. Besides, I've built relationships with managers who I now consider friends, and I've made placements with people who have ended up absolutely loving their jobs. There are positives to it, and that's what keeps me going.

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#19

I feel the need to chip in here, as I've been a lurker for a year or so. I'm a recruitment consultant. I recruit for front end web developers. In my spare time I've been teaching myself Javascript and (with the help of my flatmate, who is a software developer) C#. I do this because I enjoy it, and consider it a valuable skill to have as technology becomes more and more integral to my life. But I also do it because it…

It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself is inherently corrupt. The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge (enough to even _read_ resumes…

[deleted]

Re: Why Recruiters Exist (and what to do about it)

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit like the pity I have on people that make phone calls for telemarketers. The position itself is a fiction, designed to maximize placement ("hard sell") at the expense of honesty. Yes, there are people stuck in those jobs. I have pity on the people stuck there. But the position itself is inherently corrupt. The whole move of hiring away from people with some technical knowledge (enough to even _read_ resumes…

I completely agree. The industry itself has become more and more corrupt over the years. However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush. There are people within the industry who are genuinely well versed and technically minded, and benefit from this. That's what I aspire to be like for however long I'm in this job for. But it's an uphill struggle. We're salespeople. No one gro…

However, I think it is a case of the acts of a few tarring everyone with the same brush.

I honestly used to think the exact same thing however I've quickly come to realise that the opposite is true. There are infinitely more shitty recruiters than decent ones but that's not to mean the shitty approach works.

The very fact that you frequent HN is a big plus in your favour. HN was incredibly helpful and supportive of me during my quest to prove all recruiters aren't scum so hopefully if you stick with your job and continue to contribute here, they'll show you the same respect you show them.

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