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UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

bbc.com

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Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#91

Post by touristtam »

robertlagrant wrote: post #90

I was part of a UK company that did sovereign data work on NHS data. They would give NHS trusts equity in the company in return for the data, and the data wouldn't leave the company; only results of paid research studies. The idea was to lower the increasing cost of pharma studies through early data-driven work. The company bid for this contract, and lost to Palantir. I still can't believe that a company trying to do…

Is it really that surprising? The public would have voted to have the contract awarded to that company, but our benevolent leaders are usually sway by personal gain. This type of news is usually not widely and publicly discussed in the media as they are more concerned about much more trivial things or stocking fear and rage in the public.

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#93

Post by shevy-java »

dust-jacket wrote: post #42

Having spent time working in UK healthcare tech, I never understood why everyone was lining up to throw buckets of money at Palantir. Quite apart from being obviously evil and so on, none of their solutions were actually very good. Unfortunately, it's hard to escape the feeling that friends in high places, some lobbying and some er... reciprocal back scratching might have been instrumental. See also senior staff at N…

> why everyone was lining up to throw buckets of money at Palantir

Because of financial kickbacks. This is also why people should be suspicious at the current age-sniffing movement. Their next move was "VPNs must be abolished". We can see which mega-corporations finance those movements. Quite suspicious how different countries so easily "copy-paste" this legislation.

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#94

Post by robertlagrant »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #84
dust-jacket wrote: post #42

Having spent time working in UK healthcare tech, I never understood why everyone was lining up to throw buckets of money at Palantir. Quite apart from being obviously evil and so on, none of their solutions were actually very good. Unfortunately, it's hard to escape the feeling that friends in high places, some lobbying and some er... reciprocal back scratching might have been instrumental. See also senior staff at N…

I say this as somebody who has worked vendor side in UK public sector for a number of years. It's policy. It's official Whitehall policy. As a department you can't hire programmers at £100k/year, because that pushes them way, way higher than civil service bands allow. But you can pay a "Systems Integrator" - a consultancy like Cap Gemini, Deloitte, Fujitsu - £600/day for the same programmer in the same seat. So, £100…

The problem is that the civil service is inefficient and will bloat, because the only pressure on it to not is the individual good practice of leaders. There's no competitive/market pressure on it to naturally cap spending based on value.

I agree that GDS is a good thing, and I interviewed with them a few years ago and was impressed, but there is always the risk of bloat. I wish this could be fixed. I have some ideas about a similar concept in the NHS that would require the government hiring well-paid software engineers.

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#95

Post by sillyfluke »

robertlagrant wrote: post #94
PaulRobinson wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as somebody who has worked vendor side in UK public sector for a number of years. It's policy. It's official Whitehall policy. As a department you can't hire programmers at £100k/year, because that pushes them way, way higher than civil service bands allow. But you can pay a "Systems Integrator" - a consultancy like Cap Gemini, Deloitte, Fujitsu - £600/day for the same programmer in the same seat. So, £100…

The problem is that the civil service is inefficient and will bloat, because the only pressure on it to not is the individual good practice of leaders. There's no competitive/market pressure on it to naturally cap spending based on value. I agree that GDS is a good thing, and I interviewed with them a few years ago and was impressed, but there is always the risk of bloat. I wish this could be fixed. I have some ideas…

What you wrote has nothing to do with what the parent wrote.

>There's no competitive/market pressure on it to naturally cap spending based on value.

The parent is specifically claiming gov jobs don't allow for near market rates. That number would literally be formulated by current market pressures. If that goes lower in the private sector it will go lower in the gov sector.

For your point to be correct with respect to their specific example, you would have to claim the gov could pay £300k/year when the going market rate was £100k/year and there would be no pressure to prevent this. Whereas all it would take would be someone to ask why a run-of-the-mill programmer is getting paid 3x the market rate?

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#97

Post by robertlagrant »

sillyfluke wrote: post #95
robertlagrant wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the civil service is inefficient and will bloat, because the only pressure on it to not is the individual good practice of leaders. There's no competitive/market pressure on it to naturally cap spending based on value. I agree that GDS is a good thing, and I interviewed with them a few years ago and was impressed, but there is always the risk of bloat. I wish this could be fixed. I have some ideas…

What you wrote has nothing to do with what the parent wrote. >There's no competitive/market pressure on it to naturally cap spending based on value. The parent is specifically claiming gov jobs don't allow for near market rates . That number would literally be formulated by current market pressures. If that goes lower in the private sector it will go lower in the gov sector. For your point to be correct with respect…

That part was referring to the air-quotes here:

> but at least you won't have "inefficient civil service bloat" to have to manage.

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#98

Post by skeletal88 »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #84
dust-jacket wrote: post #42

Having spent time working in UK healthcare tech, I never understood why everyone was lining up to throw buckets of money at Palantir. Quite apart from being obviously evil and so on, none of their solutions were actually very good. Unfortunately, it's hard to escape the feeling that friends in high places, some lobbying and some er... reciprocal back scratching might have been instrumental. See also senior staff at N…

I say this as somebody who has worked vendor side in UK public sector for a number of years. It's policy. It's official Whitehall policy. As a department you can't hire programmers at £100k/year, because that pushes them way, way higher than civil service bands allow. But you can pay a "Systems Integrator" - a consultancy like Cap Gemini, Deloitte, Fujitsu - £600/day for the same programmer in the same seat. So, £100…

In Estonia this was solved by moving all the IT related people to organisations adjacent to the ministries and departments, so the lower paid civil servants wont have to be compared to the highly paid software developers and architects, etc. One colleague used to work as and architect of the justice ministry. He said the suit wearing civil servants with law degrees were pissed off at the homeless looking sweatshirt wearing software developers who were much higher paid. So the IT stuff was moved to another new department, but it still answers to the minister.

Similar stuff with other ministries. Interior ministry has their own it department, where they develop and maintain the population registry, criminal registries, and stuff that requires a security clearance

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#99

Post by robertlagrant »

touristtam wrote: post #91
robertlagrant wrote: post #90

I was part of a UK company that did sovereign data work on NHS data. They would give NHS trusts equity in the company in return for the data, and the data wouldn't leave the company; only results of paid research studies. The idea was to lower the increasing cost of pharma studies through early data-driven work. The company bid for this contract, and lost to Palantir. I still can't believe that a company trying to do…

Is it really that surprising? The public would have voted to have the contract awarded to that company, but our benevolent leaders are usually sway by personal gain. This type of news is usually not widely and publicly discussed in the media as they are more concerned about much more trivial things or stocking fear and rage in the public.

Well, it was surprising at the time. I agree that the public should care about this, and I'm glad the specifics of Palantir are helping bring the issue to light, but it was still very odd. I think non-technical leaders are seduced by words like "platform" and "low code" (at the time), as it makes it seems technical issues seem trivial, and converts them into vendor management tasks, which they know how to do.

Re: UK government replaces Palantir software with internally-built refugee system

#100

Post by ngcazz »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #7

Palantir needs to be banned in every EU country. The UK would be wise to do the same. I would never trust an openly MAGA company.

Weird line to draw, when the merger of the American tech sector and the military-industrial complex is in full swing. Palantir isn't the only company providing surveillance and economic viability to the Israeli occupation of Palestine.
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