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Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

kotaku.com

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Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#301

Post by maxk42 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #233
maxk42 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chargebacks. "Oh, honey, I don't know how that got there. A hacker must've stolen my card! I'll call the bank immediately!" Worked in the adult industry and traditional e-commerce. It's a perennial problem.

> Chargebacks. "Oh, honey, I don't know how that got there. A hacker must've stolen my card! I'll call the bank immediately!" Worked in the adult industry and traditional e-commerce. It's a perennial problem. As explained elsewhere, this is a problem for the merchants , not for the platforms. The platforms don't lose money on this, and may in fact profit off of it.

I managed an adult platform with 200 employees and $75 million in revenue and a dedicated Risk Analysis team. I think I know a thing or two about this, but thanks for the input.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#302

Post by anglb »

nekusar wrote: post #23
schnebbau wrote: post #3

So who is pressuring the processors?

If you dig, this issue has been brewing for quite some time. Long story short, its the hard-right conservatives and/or Christians who demand everybody *else* follow their recidivist ethics. Exodus Cry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Cry explicit christian thinktank Collective Shout - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Shout not explicitly christian, but mirrors Exodus Cry almost verbatim Going down the r…

> FiLiA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FiLiA hard conservative feminist group, hates transgender

Your characterisation is way off the mark. FiLiA is an organisation run by left-wing feminists and their conferences cover a wide range of issues affecting women and girls.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#303

Post by rahidz »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #278
tptacek wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't responsive to anything I've written. It's not in any sense a moral debate over sex products. It's a practical debate over how expensive it is to underwrite transactions in these markets. The people involved in making those payments work are extending credit.

Payment processors have constructed a “moral ordering of sexuality” [1] that would be entirely unnecessary if, as you claim, their intentions are purely legal and/or related to high chargeback rates. If it’s not a moral issue, then the rules should be simple and easily communicable. Examples: Comply with the law of your jurisdiction. Keep your chargeback rates below x%. Instead, payment processors intentionally refus…

First off, great article, everyone involved in this discussion should read it.

Second, agreed, if this was primarily about chargeback rates, there'd be no differentiation between disallowing things like hypnosis, (fictional) non-con, BDSM, etc. over vanilla sexual material. Instead it seems to be a mixture of pressure by (primarily religious, though some feminist) anti-porn activists, negative media portrayals (e.g. Kristof's PornHub article in the NYT), and understandable fear of lawsuits resulting from hosting actual illegal material (Visa/Pornhub case in California).

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#304

Post by nekusar »

anglb wrote: post #302
nekusar wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you dig, this issue has been brewing for quite some time. Long story short, its the hard-right conservatives and/or Christians who demand everybody *else* follow their recidivist ethics. Exodus Cry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_Cry explicit christian thinktank Collective Shout - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Shout not explicitly christian, but mirrors Exodus Cry almost verbatim Going down the r…

> FiLiA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FiLiA hard conservative feminist group, hates transgender Your characterisation is way off the mark. FiLiA is an organisation run by left-wing feminists and their conferences cover a wide range of issues affecting women and girls.

I wasnt wrong about my assessment. FiLiA is:

Sex-work exclusionary. Like Trump's bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSTA-SESTA .

Trans-exclusionary. Like American Republicans' various anti-trans bills https://translegislation.com/

Encourages woman-based (trans-exclusive) laws that give them more "rights", rather than equal rights for everyone. We see this in countless US republican trans bills that protect "women", but not men.

Encourages separation of genders. Like how Mike Pence wouldnt be alone in a room with a woman other than his wife/daughter.

Sure, they're not a broad spectrum political org, but the areas where they speak in, is full of TERF and SWERF hatred. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#305

Post by TimorousBestie »

rahidz wrote: post #303
TimorousBestie wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Payment processors have constructed a “moral ordering of sexuality” [1] that would be entirely unnecessary if, as you claim, their intentions are purely legal and/or related to high chargeback rates. If it’s not a moral issue, then the rules should be simple and easily communicable. Examples: Comply with the law of your jurisdiction. Keep your chargeback rates below x%. Instead, payment processors intentionally refus…

First off, great article, everyone involved in this discussion should read it. Second, agreed, if this was primarily about chargeback rates, there'd be no differentiation between disallowing things like hypnosis, (fictional) non-con, BDSM, etc. over vanilla sexual material. Instead it seems to be a mixture of pressure by (primarily religious, though some feminist) anti-porn activists, negative media portrayals (e.g.…

Thanks for taking the time to read the article. I’m glad you appreciated it.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#306

Post by slowmovintarget »

codedokode wrote: post #102
Aurornis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do! It's called a high risk merchant account. Their payment processor would do it: https://stripe.com/ie/resources/more/high-risk-merchant-acco... > Also I think it is weird that when someone steals a bank card, they use it to buy adult games instead of buying an iPhone or MacBook and shipping it to the third world country. iPhone or MacBook purchases are expensive enough to trigger fraud detection reliably. A $…

> Adult content purchases have another problem where purchasers often deny having made the purchase when their significant other finds it on the credit card statement. Shaggy's "It wasn't me" defense. Ridiculous. People who consume adult content could at least behave like adults.

Is consuming "adult" content behaving like an adult or a hedonistic teenager?

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#308

Post by matchbok3 »

nekusar wrote: post #304
anglb wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FiLiA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FiLiA hard conservative feminist group, hates transgender Your characterisation is way off the mark. FiLiA is an organisation run by left-wing feminists and their conferences cover a wide range of issues affecting women and girls.

I wasnt wrong about my assessment. FiLiA is: Sex-work exclusionary. Like Trump's bill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOSTA-SESTA . Trans-exclusionary. Like American Republicans' various anti-trans bills https://translegislation.com/ Encourages woman-based (trans-exclusive) laws that give them more "rights", rather than equal rights for everyone. We see this in countless US republican trans bills that protect "women",…

Based on how extreme your positions (and rhetoric) are, I would very much encourage you to go touch grass.

(Hint: trans stuff got us Trump winning again)

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#309

Post by subscribed »

Manuel_D wrote: post #289
subscribed wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm partially with you on that one ("computer generated") but the laws converge to the position that if the computer-generated pixels are arranged in such a way that it's a young human, it's CSAM. Also we're not arguing the language here or its adherence to the specific reality, but the blunt tool the laws are. Putting other countries laws aside, I believe that digitally manipulating the image of the real child in th…

> Putting other countries laws aside, I believe that digitally manipulating the image of the real child in that way results in the production of the actual CSAM and as such is a federal crime. No, it's not. People have been charged, but their convictions overturned. E.g: https://capcentral.org/case_summaries/people-v-gerber/ > As the United States Supreme Court found in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (2002) 535 U.…

Thanks, I was trying to Google that and it was inconclusive. I didn't see the one you linked.

Re: Kickstarter is forced to ban adult content by payment processors

#310

Post by VerifiedReports »

kasey_junk wrote: post #285
VerifiedReports wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If U.S. credit-card issuers were worried about fraud, they would have implemented the other half of "chip-&-PIN," which the rest of the world has been using for decades. U.S. customers pretty much JUST got chips in our cards... but issuers "forgot" to implement the PIN part. Zero sympathy for this scumbag monopoly.

Chip & pin doesn’t help with chargebacks or merchant fraud which is what costs credit card processors and issuers in adult content.

I'm talking about day-to-day transactions, not specifically adult content.
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