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The AI zombification of universities

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Re: The AI zombification of universities

#171

Post by kranke155 »

asdff wrote: post #168
kranke155 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survival didn't involve a CS job at FAANG until very recently. Capitalism is not a new evil, you're absolutely right. It's just the system that, according to our current framework, came after feudalism, which came after something else. the point is that actually seeing the changes in systems as consequences of massive technological change is likely directionally correct and it is not clear whether current capitalist…

What is a CS job at a FAANG in practice? Many hats. For example if you work at Netflix on content delivery, you are the modern version of someone involved in the boring logistics of theaters and plays. If you work at Google on search, you are the modern version of a librarian establishing ways to catalog information. If you work at say facebook, you are the modern version of a propagandist or even town crier perhaps.…

You're just confusing definitions. Capitalism as its commonly thought I would think just about what it says on the wikipedia page

"Capitalism in its modern form emerged from agrarianism in England, as well as mercantilist practices by European countries between the 16th and 18th centuries. The Industrial Revolution of the 18th century established capitalism as a dominant mode of production, characterized by factory work, and a complex division of labor. "

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#172

Post by blks »

Lerc wrote: post #51

If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost. AI is an easy, but possibly high risk approach to gaining the certification without work, but the tried and tested approach is doing the bare minimum, cramming, then forgetting everything after graduation. If you penalize people who use AI but in the process have learned the required information you make the problem…

Is learning something while you plagiarising someone’s work to submit as your own coursework should also be an excuse to allow plagiarism?

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#173

Post by Esophagus4 »

llbbdd wrote: post #134
Esophagus4 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The course material isn’t really what your undergrad tuition pays for. You’re paying to be surrounded by smart kids that will ensmarten you too and for access to the school’s career networks.

Abbreviated: - Surrounded by other kids who have access to the same internet you do - Access to the school's career networks (LinkedIn)

I will challenge anyone who thinks they can get an equivalent quality of undergrad education and access to career services remotely.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#174

Post by robwwilliams »

Lerc wrote: post #51

If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost. AI is an easy, but possibly high risk approach to gaining the certification without work, but the tried and tested approach is doing the bare minimum, cramming, then forgetting everything after graduation. If you penalize people who use AI but in the process have learned the required information you make the problem…

What made University of California Santa Cruz so attractive to undergraduates in the 70s was no grading of performance and engagement but instead written evaluations. I loved being able to concentrate on great subjects with the help of often excellent teachers and TAs. Swathmore is noted for this culture too.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#175

Post by hirvi74 »

rknatty wrote: post #151
j45 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more colleges are saying they will cancel your degrees if they retroactively detect AI cheating. This will be hysterical. AI isn't the issue as much how AI is used. Passive use of any tech, including social media, and now AI is lazy and has poor outcomes. Aligning AI use with the goals of all sides, and not just one side getting paid, or just one side graduating could look different. Most people attend highe…

It is very difficult for them to prove the allegation of AI cheating. If you didn't cheat, you should fight. You have legal rights, and you don't have to roll over. I represent students who have been unfairly accused of AI cheating. Properly defended, it is not that easy for the school to win.

I have found the whole honor system of academics to be just another stick to whip students with when convenient. I am not opposed to any sort of honor system or academic integrity when there is actual honor and integrity, but the system needs to apply to both sides. None of this "rules for thee, but not for me."

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#176

Post by hirvi74 »

dgellow wrote: post #63

Overall it’s a very good read, really enjoyed the author voice and style > I don’t think she was laughing two years later when I was TAing the class and we observed a fairly distinct gap of about 40 percentage points between the take-home test and the one administered in-person. 40pp is massive. Take homes are pretty much dead at that point. And not just in schools, but also for interviews. I don’t see how you can ge…

Tangental, but is Leetcode dead too? Part of me could foresee Leetcode being believed to be a stronger indicator now, since it would be unlikely that someone that can answer those questions would know absolutely nothing about programming.

Then again, with LLMs, learning to answer those questions is probably easier now than ever.

I haven't applied for a job in a decade, so I am utterly clueless on the current landscape.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#177

Post by refs »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #124
sheept wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For US undergrad, with all the resources available online, going to university just for education doesn't justify the high tuition. Research is mostly limited to graduate school anyways.

The course material isn’t really what your undergrad tuition pays for. You’re paying to be surrounded by smart kids that will ensmarten you too and for access to the school’s career networks.

This is mythology. I went to a very high ranked uni and this is not what any of my classmates were interested in either - it was all about getting drunk and pulling all nighters a few weeks before exams.

Career networks? Hahaha. Very few benefitted from that.

Once again, I went to a top 3 ranked uni on many league tables worldwide.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#178

Post by jltsiren »

MattGaiser wrote: post #102
Lerc wrote: post #51

If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost. AI is an easy, but possibly high risk approach to gaining the certification without work, but the tried and tested approach is doing the bare minimum, cramming, then forgetting everything after graduation. If you penalize people who use AI but in the process have learned the required information you make the problem…

This particular battle for learning was lost a long time ago. If university stopped providing an earnings boost from attending, 90% of students would quit tomorrow. It doesn’t help that a lot of desirable fields are comically out of date at the academic instructional level anyway. Would you honestly tell an aspiring software engineer that your typical computer science degree will teach them much about wielding comput…

> If university stopped providing an earnings boost from attending, 90% of students would quit tomorrow.

Maybe 10–20% would quit for that reason. There would be more attrition if you could get common jobs (such as teacher or nurse) that currently require a degree but don't pay that well without formal education.

Most people don't care that much about money. Sure they would like to have more money, but it's not the primary factor that drives their major life decisions. People are generally more interested in stable careers that pay their bills and seem like something they could continue doing until retirement.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#179

Post by refs »

senexox wrote: post #158
Esophagus4 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The course material isn’t really what your undergrad tuition pays for. You’re paying to be surrounded by smart kids that will ensmarten you too and for access to the school’s career networks.

This is not at all what most students go to undergrad for. For some reason in discussions like this, things are always framed as if everyone is going to Yale. Everyone I know including myself, went to college because that is just what you were supposed to do. That was my mom's dream for me to get a degree and I didn't want to disappoint my mom. I am sure there were really smart kids in my high school that were figuri…

Correct. Social pressure is what pushes most people there.

As a result of this social pressure, people do tend to go off the rails when there (having fun) very few give a fck about studying - who cares, there's no reward for getting anything beyond 60-70%.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#180

Post by nunez »

Lerc wrote: post #51

If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost. AI is an easy, but possibly high risk approach to gaining the certification without work, but the tried and tested approach is doing the bare minimum, cramming, then forgetting everything after graduation. If you penalize people who use AI but in the process have learned the required information you make the problem…

The author mentions the notion of a "permanent underclass." What that looks like relative to your comment is this: more enterprising students (usually, but not always, from privileged upbringings) will learn how to develop the restraint to use AI as an assistant and a learning aid, while the vast majority use AI as an easy button.

Except it's actually worse than that because the big AI providers with billions on the line are actively encouraging their users to use their services as easy buttons. If they weren't, Googlebook wouldn't have a Magic Cursor/Clippy as a Service feature that suggests using Gemini when you jiggle your cursor over something, and Google Docs wouldn't insert a "Write for me?" CTA when you stop typing.

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