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The AI zombification of universities

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Re: The AI zombification of universities

#91

Post by why_at »

smartmic wrote: post #69
spicyusername wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These problems are all because of a culture that favours the measurement over what is being measured. What other kind of culture is there? A culture of not measuring?

A culture rooted in φιλοσοφία (greek, philosophia in Latin). So yes, I meant that literally. There were times, already 2500 years ago, where people wanted to study to become wiser.

I'll throw my two cents in, this still exists today. The difference between now and then is that now a college degree is seen as a requirement for a higher quality of life. (And not in a eudaimonia way)

Many people are going to college primarily to make more money in their adult life, the actual learning is secondary. If you're already well-off or just don't care, you can still get the education for its own sake.

The issue is that we've created a perverse incentive to get a college degree.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#92

Post by bawolff »

It does feel like there is an easy solution to this:

Have tests.

Supervise said tests to make sure people don't cheat.

That's how it worked when i was in university. Admittedly maybe that is easier in the sciences than humanities, but still, it seems doable. Cheating isn't a new phenomenon it just got cheaper and easier.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#93

Post by bawolff »

drmanhat wrote: post #46

Oddly enough my reaction to this is that it's a broader societal problem as opposed to an A.I. problem. Why shouldn't universities switch to examinations where no technology (apart from say calculators) are allowed; and this is strictly enforced? This was certainly the norm when I went to university. I agree that A.I. trivializes (or changes how you approach) a lot of take home work; but people who wanted to cheat co…

> (apart from say calculators)

Generally, i wasn't allowed a calculator in university.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#94

Post by Morromist »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #87
simoncion wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...how to do that without homework? Tests. Many of my university courses only graded on tests. They strongly encouraged you to do the homework to better understand the material, but didn't consider homework completion when calculating your grade. Consider that universities are educating adults who are -often- paying to be there. If we assume competent course design and instruction, if an adult chooses to not work o…

I liked the classes I had with a "reverse" format: the "homework" was done in-class, checked for correctness but not part of the grade, and the lecture was a recording watched at home.

Huh. I never took a class like that, but that seems like a great idea.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#95

Post by kaladin-jasnah »

bawolff wrote: post #92

It does feel like there is an easy solution to this: Have tests. Supervise said tests to make sure people don't cheat. That's how it worked when i was in university. Admittedly maybe that is easier in the sciences than humanities, but still, it seems doable. Cheating isn't a new phenomenon it just got cheaper and easier.

This selects for people who excel at taking tests. Sure, there may not be a better alternative, but as an empirical measure I learned just about nothing in my test heavy college courses, as I was incentivized to cram for the exams and purged everything immediately after the final (and midterm).

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#96

Post by Morromist »

jsoaoxhd wrote: post #65
Morromist wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that no-tech parts of universities would work - obviously you can't avoid tech when teaching some things like coding, but mostly I think it would be a good idea. There are problems: Having students attend lectures is great but they have to work with the material and prove they understand it - how to do that without homework? I'm sure there are ways. Have them work in a building full of computers cut-…

For coding you can actually teach students on commodore 64s. It’s actually better because they have a BASIC shell and assembly language. Most importantly, no internet. :) Actually, give them internet why not. But they have to use a 56k modem. Mwhaaha

I would actually love taking a class like that.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#97

Post by curiousllama »

curiousllama wrote: post #37

Over a decade ago, my orientation at UChicago included the traditional "Aims of Education" address. They packed the whole first-year class into the chapel to explain, at length, that this education will not be "useful." You're not supposed to make more money, or be happier, or really become anything other than a better version of yourself. I wonder if they still do this.

Expanding this thought...

UChicago should be pretty uniquely positioned to address the problem of AI writ large. They already require a full year of each philosophy, literature, and history (all through primary sources). This "Core" should already be fairly AI-proof, given they are primarily small-group, discussion-driven courses; oral exams, in-class essays, or even graded discussions should be straightforward adaptations.

And yet, the university shifted towards professionalism before AI ("training a mind for the workforce" rather than "the good life").

Already, this transition did what the author observes AI is doing. I would hardly believe someone who cheats through an econ/stats major is less educated - if only through osmosis - than someone who honestly completes Business Economics.

And so I wonder - if the damage of AI is primarily instrumental to the broader trend of hyper-professionalism, what damage has it actually done?

If we automate away the signal to companies "yes, I can do stats for you," does that free students to focus more on the _less_ professional aspects of education?

Sure, it undercuts credentialism, making the "piece of paper" near worthless - but if our aim of education is just to "be better," should that not give us hope?

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#98

Post by csb6 »

hansmayer wrote: post #77
chung8123 wrote: post #44

The college system is creating the zombie underclass with AI or without it. The amount of money colleges charge combined with the text book thinking shapes people into thinking there are steps to success, there are right answers, and "getting a job" is the right way to go. Colleges don't teach independent thinking and that is the exact thinking we need in the era of Youtube and AI. You don't need college to teach you…

> You don't need college to teach you how to learn text book items anymore and I think that is scary to some. a) This is about universities, not "college" b) The University teaches you critical thinking, not how to learn "textbook items". It's not vocational training for upper middle class. It's for building and developing citizens who can think critically.

In the United States, "college" and "university" are generally used interchangeably. I absolutely agree with your second point and the shift has been going on so long that people are genuinely baffled by the idea that college should not just be "white-collar vocational school"

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#99

Post by stonlyb »

ls612 wrote: post #2

This whole piece is AI generated.

As noted in my own parent comment: I loved reading this (it's too well written it could not be AI despite the emdashes), and especially appreciate any mention of "The Whispering Earring", which is one of my spinning tops to remind me to remain vigilant of my cognitive health despite my almost complete embrace of AI.

Re: The AI zombification of universities

#100

Post by Funes- »

Lerc wrote: post #51

If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost. AI is an easy, but possibly high risk approach to gaining the certification without work, but the tried and tested approach is doing the bare minimum, cramming, then forgetting everything after graduation. If you penalize people who use AI but in the process have learned the required information you make the problem…

>If people attend university for certification instead of education I think the battle is already lost

It's been a lost battle for decades, then.

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