[dead]
Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
561–570 of 662 posts
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#562Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he is alluding to increased immigration from low-trust cultures. Many of these visitors who were granted asylum or student stays are by now fully Canadian. So yes, Canadians.
America was founded by low trust immigrants.
Yes, it fits. The U.S.A. has an image of being a (wildly successful) tactless grifter without respect for agreements and contracts in foreign policy circles.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#564I've sat in classes where people at my table genuinely took pictures of the exam while the professor's back was turned (being kind to us and giving us useful information on the board) and uploaded the entire exam to the Gemini app. Cheating is all around disheartening and is now incredibly easy with all the free multi-modal models around. Real active proctoring is needed and devices need to be confiscated during exam…
In my alma mater it was well known that business school professors were lazy and gave the same exams year after year, so all the fraternities kept backfiles of the old exams.
Since I was in the engineering school and most professors actually cared, it didn't affect us as much.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
Covid and Chatgpt are no the only changes in society in the recent years. If you are an all around liar and cheater you can even be president!!
It's not just "the recent years". There's a reason the phrase "honest politician" is an oxymoron.
In the past there was more of the expectation that if you were caught in a major scandal your political career would be over. In that sense there has definitely been a decline.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hm, this answers something I was wondering, how do accusations work with no proctors or other evidence
You end up in this wonderful place: https://rrr.princeton.edu/students-and-university/25-univers...
Wouldn’t you end up in front of the Undergraduate Honor Committee rather than the Faculty-Student Committee on Discipline?
The Faculty-Student Committee on Discipline “adjudicates all potential violations of academic integrity regulations by undergraduate students other than those violations involving in-class exams (which fall under the jurisdiction of the Honor Committee)” [0]
0: https://odus.princeton.edu/student-support-and-community-sta...
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
A couple of my friends teach university classes. Mostly undergrad. I get to hear some of their interesting stories when we game together. My impression is that there was a sharp shift around COVID. Doing classes over Zoom with a talking head broke the connection they had with their professors and other students. College felt closer to a video game operated through your screen than a community. When I was in college n…
This fits with my priors. I was in grad school during covid and had some professors I was close to (and whose class I was taking) reach out asking for feedback on their exam because students were blatantly cheating despite the allowances the professors were making (up to being open to the internet, just no direct communication). They couldn't punish them, and they were perplexed why anyone would bother cheating on ev…
> students were refusing to think for themselves even when given open ended projects. They were just having ChatGPT come up with the project idea for them instead of taking advantage of the freedom to do something they enjoyed.
Those kinds of projects are a big trap for certain kinds of people. If I had used ChatGPT in college, maybe I wouldn't have come up with overly-ambitious projects that seemed doable at the time but instead took several full weeks of work and basically made my semester miserable.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m an alum now, not a student, but even college students can submit a FOIA request. Additionally, the school can look in to it if it wants. The possibilities are near-endless for getting this kind of info. There’s also the simple fact that it’s not like it’s a secret when someone is expelled. I don’t understand why you think it’s so impossible for people to prove this problem exists. For starters, they could simply…
I didn’t say it was “impossible.” I just asked you for your evidence. Do you have evidence similarly situated individuals were treated differently? Do you have evidence of events of cheating going unreported? I’m not saying you’re wrong about your ultimate conclusion. I’m asking about the type of evidence you believe is sufficient to support that conclusion. The fact that most teachers were uncomfortable reporting mi…
I’m not going to doxx myself in a futile effort to convince you systemic racism is real.
Again, the numbers spoke to the truth of the matter. White people were reported and expelled at a rate that was so much lower than their non-white and international peers that it defied credulity. Men were also accused and expelled at a rate far higher than women were - something tells me you won’t push back against that.
The school didn’t end an over century-old practice that was a major point of pride for them because of vibes. It ended because it was harming only certain groups and was not effective at curtailing cheating.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
We do have "little libraries" where anyone can take or leave books in many people's yards. But I haven't seen the honor system produce stands in urban areas for the past 10+ years.
We have a little honor system library in our neighborhood near the playground. But I’ve never seen anything like that in Baltimore, DC, or Philadelphia.
I’ve seen them in Arlington, VA. Which is basically DC.
Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, those are exactly the differences. It's very easy to argue speeding is immoral: it's immoral to disobey any law or regulation passed by a democratically elected government if these is no other conflicting moral principle. So you can speed to rush to a hospital, for example, but everyday speeding is immoral both because it breaks the morally legitimate democratic law and increases the chance of physical harm. Fo…
> it's immoral to disobey any law or regulation passed by a democratically elected government if these is no other conflicting moral principle. I have to say, this is not the sort of attitude I expected to find on this site. Especially from someone defending cheating on exams. Anyway, I'm sure I won't convince you to change your mind on this, and you certainly won't convince me.
You misread me. I never said cheating is fine. I responded to someone who said that cheating is "obviously" bad, implying ratting out a friend is not. The only thing I've done is to say they're both bad, and that it's not obvious at all that the former is worse than the latter.
And I find it somewhat bizarre that you seem to think there is no moral value in following the law? Especially when I added the caveat "if there is no other conflicting moral principle", which means you believe there is nothing bad about the law?
Or is it the caveat you disagree with, and you think the law must be followed no matter what?