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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#511

Post by bcye »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #500
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. You see this on the Swiss metro and in small-town vegetable stalls. Unproctored exams force every student to weigh the value of their honor against a better grade. That's a personal moral reckoning that might be worth the entire degree.

> Swiss metro I guess you mean they don't have fare gates? I quickly Googled about it and found this article: https://lenews.ch/2025/03/21/the-rapid-rise-of-fare-dodging-... To quote: "In 2024, more than 1 million cases of fare evasion were recorded in Switzerland, reported RTS. The number has more than doubled since 2019." High trust, eh? Here is a better explanation: Someone smart did the math and discovered that f…

This is the standard across Europe outside of a few metropoles (really is there anywhere else in Europe outside Paris & London that does this?)

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#512

Post by dinkumthinkum »

mystraline wrote: post #239
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a disgusting take. Leftists such as yourself are beyond the pale. Luigi murdered someone in cold blood. You can civil society like that. Leftists are always going fascists but I don’t they have a problem with fascism. Their only issue is that they want you to be the fascists. How can you not see how a civil society cannot exist if we follow your ideology? It’s fine as long as it happens to people you disagree wi…

Cause yeah, we should totally give businessmen a hard pass when their decision kills 10000 a year, cause some shareholder makes more money. Thats just murder with an extra step, and somehow deemed legal and allllll good. Do we both value a life, regardless their status? If so, Im siding with the masses. If that businessman stands in the way of 10000 dying, Im pulling that train lever and running his ass over.

Yeah, you're out of your of mind. This is just so stupid. You don't feel this kind of thinking is beneath you? You're literally advocating for cold blooded murder for someone you disagree with. As I said before, do you really think you can have a civil society like that. What do you think that achieves. I feel like you can't really be that mindless. You think that is like pulling a train lever?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#513

Post by etherealG »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #500
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What on earth could be the objection to proctoring? There is a unique pride in being part of a community built around honor. You see this on the Swiss metro and in small-town vegetable stalls. Unproctored exams force every student to weigh the value of their honor against a better grade. That's a personal moral reckoning that might be worth the entire degree.

> Swiss metro I guess you mean they don't have fare gates? I quickly Googled about it and found this article: https://lenews.ch/2025/03/21/the-rapid-rise-of-fare-dodging-... To quote: "In 2024, more than 1 million cases of fare evasion were recorded in Switzerland, reported RTS. The number has more than doubled since 2019." High trust, eh? Here is a better explanation: Someone smart did the math and discovered that f…

And a meta-point on top of the objectively better revenue argument swinging back to the other point about honor: if some or even most of the people involved in the honor system believe it works for the purpose of maintaining honor between each other, then it will encourage honorable behavior, even when there's significant dishonorable behavior.

The fact that most people don't know that the honor system is about money not honor is part of what makes the money part of the honor system work.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#514

Post by graemep »

drstewart wrote: post #484
rayiner wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In major cities? LKY was talking about an unmanned newspaper stand and cash box in Trafalgar Square. Would that work in Times Square today?

Would it work in Trafalgar Square today?

Probably. There certainly used to be places in London with similar systems not long ago.

That said, the UK is becoming lower trust.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#515

Post by blitzar »

rcbdev wrote: post #489
prawn wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadians?!

I think he is alluding to increased immigration from low-trust cultures. Many of these visitors who were granted asylum or student stays are by now fully Canadian. So yes, Canadians.

America was founded by low trust immigrants.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#516

Post by gavinsyancey »

rcbdev wrote: post #488
mock-possum wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally bought pumpkins to carve, firewood for the stove, and a carton of eggs from unmanned ‘honor system’ roadside stands last year. All three made it easy, venmo code posted, boop, on your way.

> Venmo code posted This is the mark of a low-trust society masking its issues with technological band-aids. In high-trust countries, you still pay exclusively with cash at these unattended roadside stands.

No, it's the mark of "many people no longer carry exact change." An unattended box of produce and a sign saying "please pay this code" still requires trust that people won't take the produce without paying.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#517

Post by [deleted] »

biofox wrote: post #487
silvestrov wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very different world from the exams I had in Denmark, both uni and high school: * all exams were proctored * the proctoring were done by external people hired to do this. * you could not leave exam for the toilet without asking first and then being followed out by a watcher, which then would follow you back and check the toilet afterwards for notes. * you were never handed back the papers you handed in. * resp…

Exactly the same as my experience in the UK.

[deleted]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#518

Post by intended »

novok wrote: post #461
silver_silver wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that it’s not possible to learn if one offloads the work itself to an LLM

Just like how you significantly increased the difficulty of exams in "open book" exams in the past where the only way to pass the open book exam was to know the material well, you similarly need to increase the difficulty of other work where it won't matter if you have an LLM, because you won't pass without knowing your shit either!

Says who?

Your work will be ‘graded’ by other humans who don’t know what they are talking about, or an LLM which will assume the median answer is correct?

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#519

Post by dijksterhuis »

biofox wrote: post #487
silvestrov wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very different world from the exams I had in Denmark, both uni and high school: * all exams were proctored * the proctoring were done by external people hired to do this. * you could not leave exam for the toilet without asking first and then being followed out by a watcher, which then would follow you back and check the toilet afterwards for notes. * you were never handed back the papers you handed in. * resp…

Exactly the same as my experience in the UK.

during GCSEs (nationally held exams at 16 for non uk people) i was sick in hospital for two weeks. when i came back i had to sit the missed exams in a special sitting.

exact same processes with external monitor etc. but with the backup exam papers that was different to the ones everyone else already did.

which is kind of in contrast to university (organised by the institution) where someone stole the exam paper for a difficult module in our final year. so they assigned one of the past year’s papers instead, as if everyone hadn’t memorised it already.

one of the benefits of scale with central organising bodies where you have to get things right (organising GCSEs nationally) is being forced to prepare for edge cases because they become a lot more common.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#520

Post by nixon_why69 »

rayiner wrote: post #400
FireBeyond wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, did racism end with “I have a dream…”? Public high schools in Georgia were still holding segregated proms no more than 10 years ago.

The elimination of personal racism in towns of less than 1,500 people in rural georgia isn’t a prerequisite to be skeptical of the claim that a university, which is subject to tremendous legal scrutiny and liability, is treating people differently based on race with regard to rule enforcement. Especially so when you’re invoking the specter of racially discriminatory enforcement as a reason against rules that would be…

OP stated that they witnessed the discrepancy firsthand. They didn't name the school, how are you so confident that they're wrong?
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