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Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

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Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#431

Post by dlcarrier »

benchloftbrunch wrote: post #379
KennyBlanken wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online multiplayer games keep trying to allow linux users in and keep having to lock them out because there's an instant influx of cheaters. The Nintendo Switch (which runs Linux) was a favorite of cheaters after jailbreaks came out. When anyone can compile and run their own kernel with god knows what for modifications, that makes it substantially easier for cheaters and substantially harder for anti-cheat. I don't s…

Nintendo Switch does not run Linux, it runs a proprietary OS called Horizon based on the Nintendo 3DS firmware. Not sure but it might or might not have some BSD code in the network stack or something.

Pretty much everything uses BSD source code in the network stack, including Windows, so that much is a safe assumption, but there's far more that the Switch is using. According to the copyright notice, it uses the FreeBSD kernel. This tracks with reported use of BSD jails, which are part of the BSD kernel.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#432

Post by Dylan16807 »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #402
Dylan16807 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically are you saying can make a difference? I'm saying that extra overhead from making your lock work across processes should be very tiny. That overhead shouldn't add much more than a microsecond in either latency or CPU usage, compared to an in-process lock .

You were saying "reasonable overhead" makes no difference because something "isn't called much". This is not only ambiguous but also not true because latency is important. What calls specifically are you talking about between windows and linux? This was started by someone talking about WaitForMultipleObjects.

I wasn't excusing all overhead, I was excusing the difference in overhead caused by making the lock more flexible. Because that's what the discussion is about, a lock that can be shared between processes versus a lock that can't be. The penalty for being "too flexible".

But assuming reasonable implementations, the difference between those two lock styles shouldn't be more than about a microsecond, should it? So that's fine for a lock that's only used 100 times a second.

I'm not comparing windows and linux anywhere.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#433

Post by bigstrat2003 »

criddell wrote: post #119
Pooge wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care about gaming.

Apple has never really cared about games unless it's on the iPhone or iPad. It's worked out well for them though. Mobile gaming is a $100 billion dollar market, PC gaming and console gaming are each about half that.

Comparing mobile games to PC and console games is like comparing film buffs to someone who only watches the latest summer blockbuster. They are technically the same on some level, but so different that they really shouldn't be considered the same category.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#435

Post by KolibriFly »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #8

Used to be a staff member working on an x86 OS called CTOS. I realized if I implemented a couple of traps, we could run command-line DOS programs. So I did. And it worked. Dev tools, text processing, piped commands all worked. It helped that the DOS executable format was the same as the CTOS format - because we had traded Bill Gates our linker (which produces executables) for his BASIC compiler.

This is such a neat historical parallel

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#436

Post by KolibriFly »

trashface wrote: post #109

Feels like there is some real momentum on linux gaming now. I mostly play older games but I've gotten most of them working acceptably in proton on my old system 76 laptop (oryp5, with a nvidia 2060; ~7 years old). The laptop actually has plenty of power for the games I play, but I underclock to keep the heat/fan speeds down (been doing the same on the win10 install on the same system), still getting acceptable framer…

This is exactly why Proton feels like the pragmatic path. Native ports are nice in theory, but PC games are rarely just one clean executable anymore

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#437

Post by sayamqazi »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #349
QuaternionsBhop wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't rely on server-side detection either, because some of the cheats are so advanced they go to great lengths to "behave" like a highly skilled human player would with their aiming Shouldn't that be the goal of anti cheat? That cheating is indistinguishable from expert gameplay? Seems to me like these companies are just trying to avoid implementing proper infallible server-authoritative gameplay by offloading…

All these games already have an authoritative server. These cheaters aren't breaking the rules of the game by being invincible, super speedy, etc. they're aim-botting and wall hacking. Those cheats can't be prevented with authoritative networking.

I dont know what kind of authoritative server Apex Legend uses that let the infamous "Tufi" hacker do what he did for so long. IMO it should be trivial to ban someone hitting more than 80% of their shots as headshots,, dual weilding weapons that were never supposed to be dual-weilded. Charge rifle beam permanently shooting and swapping armors from miles away

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#438

Post by hackeridiot12 »

zrm wrote: post #416
wtetzner wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You act like cheating is new to video games?? No, I think the point is that with AI the existing anti-cheat measures can simply be avoided by letting the AI play through the same interface as a human. Therefore anti-cheat kernel modules will no longer be useful, and will no longer be a reason to stay on Windows.

It seems like what this needs is the return of video arcades. Fill a room at the mall with Linux boxen with midrange GPUs and fiber internet and the sort of keyboards you can clean with pressurized water. Charge an entry fee and then sell pizza, cheetos, coffee, soda and beer. Open at 11AM and close at sunrise. Then publish the public IPs used by the arcade-owned machines at each location in the chain and use differe…

Yes exactly but you do not go far enough with your plans. What is the point of any game if we can not determine who has memorised the meta best and who’s fingers twitch fastest. We need to out law general purpose computing in society and first it must be slowly phased out. Humans have shown they can not be trusted with open platforms they will always cheat and scam each other to gain an advantage. We will also need eye tracking devices to determine if they are cheating by reading notes off paper nearby. I think your plan comes to perfection if we chip everyone in case someone else plays for them on the locked down device.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#439

Post by HerbManic »

protocolture wrote: post #411
neverkn0wsb357 wrote: post #295

Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. If you look at Steam, and OSs like Bazzite it’s clear the consumer-side is finally shoring up. But that aside, from an economic incentive, game providers (for example Amazon Luna), don’t want to be paying the licenses for running Windows machines for Video Game Streaming on Demand. In fact, at my time there…

>Given the current momentum, it feels like (to me) the adage of “Windows is for Games” is going by the wayside. I think that games have been a strategic priority for Windows for a very long time. Going all the way back to DOS/4GW on Windows 95. But the impression I get from Microsoft is that they kind of don't want the hassle of maintaining a desktop OS anymore, and they would be happier if everyone went elsewhere.

The last few years it has felt like that, Microsoft is more than happy to sell to everyone while also having Windows.

I mean Windows is still a huge cash cow for them and is THE desktop OS but the actions they are taking with it sort of makes it feel like a second class citizen.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#440

Post by dragontamer »

wtetzner wrote: post #363
dragontamer wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never was fair to play vs computers in reaction games or skill games. IE: Quakebots and Fighting games have perfect reaction times and perfect combos. They can simply block perfectly and counter attack perfectly and never drop a combo. You act like cheating is new to video games?? -------- We never wanted bot in these games. Still don't want them today, and it's a big reason that playing on public boxes (ex: at an…

> You act like cheating is new to video games?? No, I think the point is that with AI the existing anti-cheat measures can simply be avoided by letting the AI play through the same interface as a human. Therefore anti-cheat kernel modules will no longer be useful, and will no longer be a reason to stay on Windows.

No one is going to use LLMs if aimbots are available.

Have you even played an FPS vs an aimbots before?

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