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Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

dailyprincetonian.com

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Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#421

Post by osculum »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #286
osculum wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im surprised to hear that. I went to Caltech for my postgrad and never collaborated on an test, and it would have never ocurre me to do so (and no, the professor didn’t have to explicitly say they collaboration was not allowed. It was just the standard honor code). We all suspected of people that didn’t adhere to the honor code and it was frowned upon, and they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported th…

> they could have faced repercussions if anyone had reported them. Did people report them?

Not that I know of. I just heard rumors but never saw it myself.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#423

Post by smelendez »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #419
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

I'm not defending the honor code or anything, but photocopying students' exams seems like an end-run around the policy.

It makes some sense just to have a backup, especially if you’re dividing papers and recombining them. It’s not impossible that one could get misplaced or damaged.

Also, you could have an issue where the exam somehow becomes relevant again after you’ve handed them back, and some students may not have kept their copies (like if one student successfully challenges their grade and you realize other papers were also misgraded).

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#424

Post by smelendez »

porknubbins wrote: post #396
rayiner wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want rage bait, read the proceedings of honor code committees at your school. At least at Northwestern they were public record (sometimes with redaction of identities). The number of people who got off with obviously bullshit excuses was maddening even to read about.

I once was accused and brought before the honor counsel for a really stupid innocent mistake. Basically it was a history worksheet requiring written paragraph answers and I swapped around answers under the wrong questions so the teacher thought I cheated. It was a careless mistake I made because I had lost the original worksheet and was working off a loose leaf copy in the cafeteria at the last minute but it made it…

That seems like it should be enough to suspect you but not enough to “convict.” Your explanation makes as much sense as cheating.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#425

Post by nradov »

SoftTalker wrote: post #413
marsten wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academic integrity committees at prestigious schools are horribly lax. They want these types of issues to go away quietly. I have a friend who in college had another student take his test from the "complete" pile, erase my friend's name, and put on his own instead. It was only through blind luck that my friend figured it out. He, the TA, and the professor reported it – with smoking gun proof – but nothing happened. T…

I've talked to instructors who've just given up. They know the students use AI. More and more of them do every year. The instructors can spot it easily, but if they brought them all into the academic dishonesty process, the department would grind to a halt. So they just let it go. They are all paying tuition, and they'll all get the credential they paid for.

I sympathize with the instructors to an extent, but the reality is that LLMs will be a pervasive part of life going forward. Schools need to completely reinvent their curriculum around that new reality. It's going to be a painful process for instructors accustomed to the old way of teaching.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#426

Post by mmooss »

twobitshifter wrote: post #216
mmooss wrote: post #23

Comments express surprise that this honor code has been in place. Many schools have similar honor codes. Despite HN trendiness, SV and business world advocacy of 'animal instincts', and current cultural trends, humans are generally honest and honorable - obviously people in many places have thought that. It's good news, though many will resist it because, I think, it violates the anarcho-libertarian norms that are fu…

Taking the ‘generally honest and honorable’ point without challenge, corruption is unavoidable at a level of 1500 students per year despite students generally being honorable. As the article shows 2/3 students never cheated (or would never admit it) but that doesn’t do much to soften the blow that 1/3 did cheat and got away with it. As a result, we still have 1/3 of the future leaders of American business/politics ch…

That result is a change. You and others write as if it has always been true, but there is no evidence of that and the people who have dealt with it directly, for well over a century, have believed otherwise.

Princeton is changing its policy because of the changed result.

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#428

Post by qotgalaxy »

nradov wrote: post #425
SoftTalker wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've talked to instructors who've just given up. They know the students use AI. More and more of them do every year. The instructors can spot it easily, but if they brought them all into the academic dishonesty process, the department would grind to a halt. So they just let it go. They are all paying tuition, and they'll all get the credential they paid for.

I sympathize with the instructors to an extent, but the reality is that LLMs will be a pervasive part of life going forward. Schools need to completely reinvent their curriculum around that new reality. It's going to be a painful process for instructors accustomed to the old way of teaching.

[dead]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#429

Post by qotgalaxy »

jasonfarnon wrote: post #419
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

I'm not defending the honor code or anything, but photocopying students' exams seems like an end-run around the policy.

[dead]

Re: Princeton mandates proctoring for in-person exams, upending 133 year precedent

#430

Post by alfiedotwtf »

marsten wrote: post #373
busyant wrote: post #346

I was a grad student @ Princeton a handful of decades ago. I was a TA for a few classes and, given the honor code, we did not proctor the exams for undergrads. We just handed them out (left the room) and returned to collect them at the end. - One of the exams in a course that I TAed had 5 free-response questions. - There were also 5 TAs in that class, so we un-stapled the exams and each TA graded one question (for co…

Academic integrity committees at prestigious schools are horribly lax. They want these types of issues to go away quietly. I have a friend who in college had another student take his test from the "complete" pile, erase my friend's name, and put on his own instead. It was only through blind luck that my friend figured it out. He, the TA, and the professor reported it – with smoking gun proof – but nothing happened. T…

Money talks and bullshit walks. I’m beginning to understand why a lot of US politician seem to come from ivy leagues yet are dumb as hell.
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