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The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

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Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#121
post #30

Anthropic, OpenAI and Google are the standouts, but the main question for me is, why is this a war? In their own context China has greatly benefitted from this. They shored up their gpu design and manufacturing expertise. If this really is a war, trump is kneecapping the country with his lawlessness and eroding America’s good will. If the world cannot trust China with their data and they cannot trust the U.S. to prov…

So I got curious about the progression of processing power, specifically how long ago did a GPU have equivalent to the latest iPhone chip? The iPhone 17 Pro has the A19 Pro, which has ~2.5 FP32 TFLOPS. The RTX 5090 has ~100 TFLOPS, so a factor of 40. Obviously there are higher end cards than the 5090 and FP32 performance is only one of many metrics so nothing about this is perfect but it is interesting.

The first consumer NVidia GPUs with similar FP32 FLOPS performance were in about 2011-2012 but were expensive. By 2016-2017, the 1060 was a very accessible consumer card with similar performance. So you're looking at about a 10 year lag from best consumer GPUs to a GPU with similar performance to a modern phone.

This is what people are spending trillions on. Put another way, their investment is going to be worthless in 10-15 yyears, absolute max. That's a very short time to recoup trillions in investment.

Obviously this depends on further shrinking and improving chips but I'm old enough to remember that same discussion and it being unknown if the future was XIL or EUV or if both of these would fail. Still, we are getting down to a handful of silicon atoms wide.

But the future here I think will be in interconnects so you don't need ever-bigger chips and you can scale horizontally much more effectively.

Oh and for comparison, the M5 has ~4.2 TFLOPS and the M5 Max has ~18 TFLOPS, for comparison.

As for it being a war, of course it is. That's what the US government does: it protects the interests of US companies and their owners. Look at the history of Bombardier-Boeing or all the atrocities committed in the name of the United Fruit Company, including multiple military coups and the ongoing embargo of Cuba.

US companies want an AI moat. China doesn't, ergo China is the enemy because no moat destroys US tech company value.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#122
>Trump fits this moment well. He is a salesman at core, and Larry Ellison is too. That helps explain why AI infrastructure is an easy political product. Selling AI today is easier than selling Oracle databases in the 1980s.

I feel like the author (and perhaps many here on HN) are on a different planet than almost everyone I interact with.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#123

No, it’s not. It’s all about adoption and the bigger picture. The US is an untrustworthy, isolated island in the AI future if you vote another idiot into office in a few years. If you’ll still be able to vote at all, that is. The largest part of the world is not the US. The cutting-edge US models are way too expensive for most parts of the world, and that also shows in adoption. China is building an ecosystem of open…

>If you’ll still be able to vote at all, that is.

Stopped reading here. What a ridiculous statement and I can only assume the rest of your post is just as ridiculous.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#125

I feel like the much simpler explanation is that the US is winning because it's dumping the most money into it. By a very large margin.

Maybe I'm not doing capitalism right, but isn't it supposed to be "The one who profits the most wins"? If you win by just spending, I think you need to adjust the parameters of your capitalistic market.

I don't get it either, but it seems to me a bit similar to how the US, if you look at market value of car companies, has utterly crushed Europe and Japan (with China surging ahead of those and maybe threatening the US soon), which to me sounds crazy (I still think of German cars as the top of the bunch).

According to Google (AI summary, no idea if it's 100% right but from what I've seen elsewhere it seems right):

Top Car Companies by Market Value (May 2026):

- Tesla ($1.3T - $1.56T): Retains market leadership with a valuation often exceeding the next several largest competitors combined.

- Toyota ($259B - $317B): Largest traditional automaker by market cap and unit sales.

- BYD ($122B - $126B): Strong market position as a Chinese electric vehicle leader.

- Xiaomi ($119B - $135B): High valuation following its entry into the smart EV market.

- General Motors ($69B - $75B): Leading traditional U.S. manufacturer, competing with Hyundai and BMW for top 10 spots.

- Ferrari (\(\approx\$60B-\$68B\)): Maintains high value due to luxury branding.

- BMW / Mercedes-Benz / Volkswagen (\(\approx\$58B-\$64B\) each): German luxury and traditional automakers facing high competition.

- Ford (\(\approx\$47B-\$54B\)): Remains a major player with significant US market share.

So, essentially, Tesla alone is somehow worth more than all European companies combined??!

Except that by sales volumes, the top companies are exactly the ones you'd expect: Volkswagen ($350B) and Toyota ($315B) at the top, far ahead of anyone else... Tesla is around the 7th place with just $95B. Does the financial markets still expect them to far out-earn Volkswagen and Toyota any time soon, we've been waiting for like a decade already??

Gemini says that by country, the car companies revenues are:

* Germany - ~ $600B

* Japan - ~ $520B

* USA - ~ $470B

* China - ~ $250B

How does that even make any sense?

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever you think about elite politicians and the super-rich, they’re not the “deep state”. The whole idea of the deep state is that it’s part of the state, ie government, so not private citizens, and they’re “deep” ie hidden below the layers of government. Thats the exact opposite of politicians and the ultra rich.

Lol I'm pretty sure the "deep state" just means, "manipulating the levers of power from a place without accountablity/oversight" which covers both these shadowy hidden layers of govt you describe and the shadowy wealthy elites funding and lobbying for whatever. It can be both.

Sure, anything can mean whatever you want if you redefine anything to suit your whims at the time.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who happens to have been born in the US and currently lives here, I welcome China winning. I trust them infinitely more than I trust my own government and industry. OpenAI and Anthropic are beholden to the capitalist system they exist under and hence cannot compete on local models. Like you say, they must try to maximize shareholder value. China is unencumbered by that constraint.

What is it about China that makes you trust them more?

not living there, for one. I don't care if they know where I live since realistically they can't do much of anything to me. If I were in china, I probably wouldn't trust them as much as I trust the US. If I were in Switzerland, I wouldn't trust the swiss government and might get my services from america or china.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#129
post #87
post #33

> where it matters most: commercialization. It begs the question because both its premise and assertion are already wrong. Has AI improved the industrial capacity of the US in order to improve the lives of its citizens? No it hasn't. Has AI increased the wealth of its citizens by being able to do laundry or any household task in a generalized way? No it hasn't. The only thing it's really done is make very narrow slic…

AI has definitely improved the industrial capacity of the US

and of everyone else, right? what service or product is only available to the US? Even with Chinese models lagging behind, the difference in capabilities is not much.

Re: The US is winning the AI race where it matters most: commercialization

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who happens to have been born in the US and currently lives here, I welcome China winning. I trust them infinitely more than I trust my own government and industry. OpenAI and Anthropic are beholden to the capitalist system they exist under and hence cannot compete on local models. Like you say, they must try to maximize shareholder value. China is unencumbered by that constraint.

You are free to hate capitalism (even if you benefit from it enormously). You are free to say that you hate capitalism and the U.S. as openly and as often as you like, without facing imprisonment or worse. But if you were in China, could you say you hate the Chinese Communist Party and China openly and as often as you like without imprisonment or worse? We know the answer to that. So go ahead and trust China more tha…

Actually, Chinas free speech, while abysmal, is better than you're making it out to be. They only really care if they see you as a threat, which realistically isn't too far off from the US both currently and historically
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