Live data from Hacker News

Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

ossresistance.com

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#11
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

[deleted]

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#12
My employers have generally been fine giving me blanket permission to contribute to specific open source projects.

The framing matters: don't say "can I please do some charity work because it makes me feel good".

Say, "can I have your permission to get free rigorous review from experts in my field, and zero out all future maintenance costs for your company by contributing my fixes to the upstream open source project?"

Because that's really how it is. No employer of mine has ever said no to that. It is entirely in their interest for you to do this, you just have to help them see it.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#13
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

You don't need to push for full opensource to be able to contribute. You can negotiate time to help maintain oss packages the company IP relies upon and design your IP around creating agnostic modules that can later be released to the community.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#14
Don’t give shit away for free if you expect something in return, even something altruistic like for the recipients to be nice to the gift and keep it in good shape.

I think it makes more sense for the commons to be built on mutuality and some kind of antibody against parasitic exploitation.

There is no “tragedy of the commons”. Private enterprise is the only tragedy.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#15
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

This doesn't apply to every state. In California you have the California Labor Code Section 2870 which prohibits employers from stealing workers IP.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#16
post #7

This is so crazy. Companies benefit from OSS so they need to pay? Come on. Companies benefit from OSS because the core idea of most of these licenses is exactly this - everyone can benefit even without contributing back. Don’t like it? Think this is not fair? Don’t do OSS or pick a more restrictive license. If a company pays for your work time not work products (many contracts work like this) they have the full right…

Unfortunately there are often questions of liability. What if you commit code that later becomes subject to litigation? It's more complicated than "we don't want to". (I'm fully supportive but when legal is involved you have to be able to justify the risk).

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#17
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

I'd personally got specific contract carveouts for this to only apply e.g. during working hours on company equipment (or even more liberal).

The GitHub liberal IP agreement is a good example of being even more chill here.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#18
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

[dead]

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#19
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

> While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice.

The problems you are describing are not actually "problems in practice", as you say. They are theoretical problems.

In practice: You can just do stuff. There is no subroutine on your computer stopping the git push. In practice: Employers just write stuff in their employement contracts. They'll write everything they possibly can, to cover asses in every possible direction. If they're allowed to just write stuff, why aren't you allowed to just do stuff? Nothing matters. In practice: Roughly zero open source projects have had their IP challenged because of this technicality.

Re: Open Source Resistance: keep OSS alive on company time

#20
post #5

While I wholeheartedly agree this as a general concept, I find it tricky to accomplish in practice. Ianal, but afaik in general your employer owns the ip, and as such publishing it as oss requires explicit permission. And getting that permission often is difficult, needs to go through endless red tape and legal departments etc. > In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is crea…

In the Netherlands the law is pretty straigtforward that this is a bad idea: > The "Nature of Employment" Rule: If you are hired as a software developer, almost any software you create (even in your own time) can be claimed by your employer.

We always advise our employees to request an exception for it. We are pretty relaxed about it, but we don't give out a blanket exception

Post reply on HN