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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#231

Post by xienze »

blipvert wrote: post #97
fp64 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its just a random idea someone wrote down. It's a result from the "European Parliamentary Research Service", hosted on the official website of the European parliament. And it is fully inline with recent attempted and success legislation of the same parliament. I am not sure why you would call this a "random idea" and an established member of the Parliamentary Research Service as "someone".

Research. Not implementation.

Trump was "researching" and not "implementing" taking Greenland by force, yet it sure did whip people up into a frenzy.

Meanwhile, "researching" chat control, VPN restrictions, etc.? "Oh it's just research, they're not actually going to do it."

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#232

Post by chasd00 »

pastage wrote: post #138
sisve wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your i…

> You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues.

As an American, that's pretty funny seeing how allies of the USA are constantly hostile toward Americans at every turn (unless we're buying a tshirt or something) and have been for many presidential administrations. Why would Americans be interested at all in what allies have to say when it's always negative anyway? When someone tells you you're their enemy long enough you begin to believe them.

As for the discussion of moving tech stacks to Europe, if that's where your company is why did that not make obvious sense day 0? Why would you place your critical infrastructure in another country not beholden to your laws? If you're based in Europe then you should host in Europe, and even further, host in your country.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#233

Post by pear01 »

It is good to diversify but people should really not make Europe out to be some sanctuary. European governments (and thus companies) are still going to cooperate with America. When the day comes when they do not, America's reach will still be long.

Never mind the fact that incentives in Europe are not so different from the USA. It may look that way now, but often moving across the globe just means trading one villain for another.

Still a good idea, just a word of caution. If people make a move such as this based on some assumption about the stability of the European regulatory scheme you may want to examine that assumption with a little more rigor.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#234

Post by Bengalilol »

kenanfyi wrote: post #150

Every now and then I see similar posts and people move to Proton from Gmail, because it is European. Well, it’s fine if that‘s the only reason you switch, but if you switch because US became weird and lost your trust, you might want to check their CEO‘s comments on political issues.

While Andy Yen supports specific Trump-aligned initiatives for precise goals, such as breaking up Big Tech monopolies (which, btw, Trump won't), this does not mean he will replicate the erratic nature and global loss of trust associated with Trump and his administration.

The Cloud Act is real and transcends any single company. This global erosion of trust highlights deeper concerns: specifically, that US practices have always been coercive. Now, the world is learning and taking action.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#235

Post by Arkhaine_kupo »

AllanSavageDev wrote: post #176
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

EU hosting their own ops like they built the Airbus A380: Database runs in France, front end in Belgium, Operations in Spain... EU Fairness dictates they all need to get a slice of the pie so this will be interesting (and by that I mean absurdly hilarious).

Isnt that how american contracts work?

You put your Headquarters in seattle, your data center in alabama, you have your dev team in SF... every state gets a slice

Like gov contracts and how they are divided is basically the largest conversation in defense contracts, they give more of a shit who will make the nails for a tank than the security parameters of the crew members

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#236

Post by jorisw »

j16sdiz wrote: post #230
jorisw wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand why people insist on using web based email. Just install your favorite desktop + mobile mail apps and you're fine. If that can't be done with Protonmail, and you want to move your email out of the US, suggest FastMail, based in Australia.

Searching email in local mailbox is a constant problem for me. Nothing really support IMAP search. Every mua sucks at large mbox file. -- Edit: I am a happy fastmail user

FWIW I use Apple's default Mail apps w/ FastMail IMAP and don't have issues with search.

But I guess you mean search w/o local caching

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#237

Post by traceroute66 »

fp64 wrote: post #204
traceroute66 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding is that the research service is providing legislation with research to inform them on how to implement. Dude, just go read the damn website. The research service does not operate on its own volition. An MEP requests a piece of research to assist them in their parliamentary work because they require independent, objective and authoritative analysis of a topic. Please stop with the damn conspiracy th…

I am not aware I was spreading conspiracy theories, and I do not understand why you have to be so aggressive and simultaneously defensive. An independent, objective, and authoritative analysis requested by a MEP speculates that a restriction or ban on VPN is likely. I think this is valuable information. You are saying this is worth nothing until it actually gets up to a vote. I disagree, I see your point and maybe it…

> analysis requested by a MEP speculates that a restriction or ban on VPN is likely.

What the hell are you on about ?

There are what, 700 MEPs from 27 member states ?

Do you even realise the sheer amount of work required to get it from "piece of RESEARCH an MEP requested" to "legislation enacted by member state" ?

And that assumes it survives parliamentary debates and votes intact !

Just because an MEP requested a piece of RESEARCH it DOES NOT MEAN it is "likely" to become legislation.

Stop with the conspiracy theories.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#238

Post by patrickmcnamara »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #188
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

Surely there would have been mumblings in certain sectors of the EU since the first Trump administration? It’s just that they started to execute now?

Trump 2 is worse than Trump 1 by far from EU perspective. And it also proved that it wasn't a once-off that Americans will vote in someone who threatens to dismantle NATO, invade Greenland, or start trade wars with allies for no reason.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#239

Post by alibarber »

TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

> (albeit over Teams)

Would be great if this irony was taken note of at this level.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#240

Post by bradley13 »

pear01 wrote: post #233

It is good to diversify but people should really not make Europe out to be some sanctuary. European governments (and thus companies) are still going to cooperate with America. When the day comes when they do not, America's reach will still be long. Never mind the fact that incentives in Europe are not so different from the USA. It may look that way now, but often moving across the globe just means trading one villain…

This. The privacy threats are somewhat different, but they still stem from government. The EU has tried to attack end-to-end encryption more than once, and they will try again. They are now requiring logging of IP addresses, and ever more tracking of use activities. The legislation requiring age verification is the camel's nose in the tent - expect them to require full ID soon. Etc.

All Western governments have clearly decided to restrict individual rights to privacy, political advocacy, and free speech in general. The way this is happening simultaneously in so many countries seems a clear indication of a coordinated effort.

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