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The vi family

lpar.ath0.com

91–100 of 198 posts

Re: The vi family

#91

I have nothing against Vi or Emacs, but since I strongly prefer GUI and mouse over terminal I use GUI editors. When I don't have a GUI available, I use micro, nano, joe.

I expect the vast majority of Emacs users to use the GUI rather than the TUI. In fact, the way I learned Emacs was by clicking on 'Help' in the menu bar and then on 'Emacs Tutorial'.

Re: The vi family

#92

I consider my vi/vim skills to be extremely minimalist subset, and probably horribly inefficient, since they were developed to work accross a broad range of UNIX systems (SCO, Solaris, HP-UX, OSF, AIX) and I rarely add anything to my vim configs on top of that other than syntax highlighting. But I'd still rather use it than just about any other text editor, just for the simplicity of that muscle memory alone. I have…

I think that it's wrong to assume that vi is the only route to deep muscle memory. Heavy mouse users develop blindingly fast Fitts’ Law targeting. And if you need essential simplicity, they have far fewer commands. Bill Joy, the original author of vi, saw the vi commands as a problem, not a solution [1]: The fundamental problem with vi is that it doesn't have a mouse and therefore you've got all these commands. In so…

well, i've got this in my muscle memory too for a reason (that linuxes tend to use vim instead of vi and enable mouse there by default):

:set mouse-=a

Re: The vi family

#93
I used Vim for about 5 years until the fact I had to smash the living daylights out of every key started to really take its toll on my hands. I then tried Atom for a bit (requiescat in pace) before landing on Emacs. Which is funny: switching FROM Vim TO Emacs in order to combat RSI, usually it's the other way around.

Re: The vi family

#94

I consider my vi/vim skills to be extremely minimalist subset, and probably horribly inefficient, since they were developed to work accross a broad range of UNIX systems (SCO, Solaris, HP-UX, OSF, AIX) and I rarely add anything to my vim configs on top of that other than syntax highlighting. But I'd still rather use it than just about any other text editor, just for the simplicity of that muscle memory alone. I have…

> I have way more stuff to keep in my head than I have room for and I can't afford to expend more than about 0.0001% of context on a text editor. I can't say I agree. To me this is equivalent to saying "I have way more music in my head than I have room for and I can't afford to expend more than about 0.0001% of context on a piano". The tool you use for 8+ hours a day is extremely important and even small gains will p…

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Re: The vi family

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To continue the musical instrument analogy, I already master the piano and I am happy with it solving my requirements. Learning the guitar will be a great undertaking, and provide me no new songs to play. Hence, I will stick to my piano.

They didn't say they mastered the piano, though. > I consider my vi/vim skills to be extremely minimalist subset, and probably horribly inefficient Likewise, "I don't configure anything from the default" could be likened to playing an out-of-tune piano because you just can't be bothered. If you genuinely switch machines so often that configuration becomes a burden, sure, stick with the defaults -- but I think it's do…

I feel like the closest analogy to leaving everything set to the default would not be an out-of-tune piano but one that you've left in 12-ET instead of retuning it to just intonation in the key you use. Vim on default configs is still a perfectly functionality piano.

Re: The vi family

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vi was never progressive, it was "the Ancients knew it better, the present sucks, these kids have terrible taste, return to the one true Past"

The Ancients did know it better. I sometimes try working without vim keybindings as it's a pain installing them everywhere. I usually give up the 3rd time I have to delete a function argument and can't dt, or select the body of a function and can't vi{. For everyone even somewhat decent at vim, having to hold right arrow until the cursor reaches the target is a humiliation ritual, and I genuinely feel second-hand emb…

The Ancients used HJKL instead of JKL: - which is where fingers rest with proper touch typing - simply because the ancients had keyboard with arrows drawn at HJKL. It's a copy-paste design.

Re: The vi family

#97

vis is absolutely great. Wish more people were aware of it (and it's cool it is mentioned in the post) and that more people used it. I still miss some features from vim, like buffers, but feels so much snappier, lighter and intuitive - and the structural regular expressions part is outstanding.

Totally agree, Vis really hits an spot between modern feel without losing what made vi great. The structural regex is a game-changer.

Re: The vi family

#98
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never edited the default config much. But then I discovered https://www.lazyvim.org/ . Turns your copy of NeoVim into an IDE. I still haven't edited the default config much, actually. But now I'm probably 2x to 3x as productive in vim (nvim, now) as before. P.S. If you decide to check out the LazyVim config, I highly recommend reading https://lazyvim-ambitious-devs.phillips.codes/ all the way through. There's a lot…

I similarly thank the stars I ran into AstroNVim, which itself is based on LazyVim. Out of the box it has a lot of well integrated/just works pieces. It has a bunch of leader key things setup, and, crucially, a little visual navigator at the bottom of the screen. Going from powerful but invisible to having something I could see was such a help! I'd compare it to moving from tmux to zellij but I'm a pretty happy tmux…

Hey, AstroNvim core maintainer here! Just wanted to clear something up. AstroNvim is in no way based on LazyVim, AstroNvim existed for almost 2 years before LazyVim existed...

Re: The vi family

#99
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never edited the default config much. But then I discovered https://www.lazyvim.org/ . Turns your copy of NeoVim into an IDE. I still haven't edited the default config much, actually. But now I'm probably 2x to 3x as productive in vim (nvim, now) as before. P.S. If you decide to check out the LazyVim config, I highly recommend reading https://lazyvim-ambitious-devs.phillips.codes/ all the way through. There's a lot…

I similarly thank the stars I ran into AstroNVim, which itself is based on LazyVim. Out of the box it has a lot of well integrated/just works pieces. It has a bunch of leader key things setup, and, crucially, a little visual navigator at the bottom of the screen. Going from powerful but invisible to having something I could see was such a help! I'd compare it to moving from tmux to zellij but I'm a pretty happy tmux…

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Re: The vi family

#100
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helix's selection-action feels way more natural to me than vi/vim's action-selection.

Had someone else parrot this line to me the other day, but I remain unconvinced. Especially when vim has visual mode, and you often can make a select before doing something to it. v$ to select from cursor to end of line, then d to cut or y to copy. Is that not the sort of thing you mean? Is visual mode in vim just underused? Recently I was trying to find a good way to delete from the current position backward to anot…

I use visual mode all the time in both vim and helix. Again, the overall selection-action feels more natural for me and doesn't require a separate mode for basic editing, nor do I want to have to switch back and forth from action-selection and selection-action. Also, visual mode is just not equivalent.

For example, I can move forward by word with 'w' and when I get to the word I want to delete, just hit 'd', or edit it at the beginning with 'i' or end with 'a', or surround with parentheses with 'ms('.

I don't want to have to go into a completely separate mode. It's annoying and I have to constantly be cognizant that I need to switch to that mode just to do basic text editing.

> Had someone else parrot this line to me the other day, but I remain unconvinced.

Side note: this comes off as condescending, as if I need to convince you of the validity of my subjective experience. So, along the same lines: I'm unconvinced there is any good argument for vim's action-selection way of doing things when practically no other UI works like that. It's like hitting ctrl+c before highlighting the text you want to copy with your mouse.

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