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Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

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Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#91

Post by Gud »

boshomi wrote: post #78
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Nuclear power has been killed off by economic forces; there’s no turning back. Solar and wind power generate cheap electricity in abundance, and midday electricity prices in Europe regularly dip into negative territory (as low as minus €500 (sic!) on May 1!). Modern grids do not require high-risk investments in ultra-inert baseload power that ultimately fails to find a market; instead, they require low-risk investmen…

Nuclear power has been amazing for my native country Sweden and I do not believe for a nanosecond that there were “economic forces” that shut down many of our operational nuclear plants.

It was political lunacy, in Sweden and Germany and many other countries.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#92

Post by lionkor »

pjmlp wrote: post #87
RobotToaster wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fukushima only killed one person https://ourworldindata.org/what-was-the-death-toll-from-cher...

"No one died directly from the disaster. However, 40 to 50 people were injured as a result of physical injury from the blast, or radiation burns." Selective view of the victims?

Brown coal power kills that many people in a good year directly, not mentioning the long term health effects of exposure to brown coal smoke (even if filtered).

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#93

Post by lionkor »

senectus1 wrote: post #16
msla wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being against nuclear only kept the world on coal longer.

only if renewable resources are not considered an option.

It's a fact that Germany turned off nuclear and subsequently extended the lifetime of brown coal power plants (they still run). Germany has plenty of renewable energy, but that is not a replacement for a steady base supply of power yet.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#94

Post by lionkor »

WatchDog wrote: post #7

If the suggested political impact of this music is to be believed, the music might be one of the biggest environmental disasters of all time. Germany has been pretty widely criticized for decommissioning it's nuclear power program, only to replace it with Russian oil.

Lots of brown coal, which famously emits more radioactivity than any nuclear power plant ever did. The anti nuclear movement is a fucking joke, and the people I know personally here in Germany who oppose(d) nuclear still think the danger is an atomic bomb level explosion, or generational crippling mutations, or losing their house.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#95

Post by varjag »

mgfist wrote: post #30
rectang wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I distrust techno-optimist promises to manage ever-growing collections of spent nuclear fuel over millennia. We can hardly trust plant operators to manage it safely over decades. Will it actually get encased successfully, will it be stored onsite in environmentally sensitive areas because it’s too much trouble to move, will your children’s children uphold the commitments you foisted on them through the political and…

> I distrust techno-optimist promises to manage ever-growing collections of spent nuclear fuel over millennia. We can hardly trust plant operators to manage it safely over decades. Nuclear power plants have been extremely safe for many decades! Fuck, even the worst disasters related to nuclear power plants have killed less people than coal or oil disasters, even including Chernobyl which was a fuck up beyond comparis…

Belarus had markedly increased general cancer rate post-1986. At the time most of that was fatal. None of that naturally is included in site personnel and firefighter fatalities that IAEA recognises as the only casualties.

When I was a student I met a Chernobyl liquidator in his 30s on a local train. He said he was dying of leukaemia and looked like it. As a thought experiment, how would you argue to him that his death is unrelated?

Western part of USSR had also an explosion of thyroid cancers and tumors among children. Fortunately it was very treatabe. Because it was screened as a known consequence of the fallout my brother in law had an intervention early.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#96

Post by lostlogin »

userbinator wrote: post #52
secretsatan wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is undeniably a middle class anti vax wellness leftist movement whether it was originally conservative or not, unfortunately.

Appeal to nature is something that definitely cuts across the political spectrum.

> Appeal to nature is something that definitely cuts across the political spectrum.

I wish this was true. How many right wing political parties support policies that improve the natural environment? Doing that is the domain of left wing parties, but I’d love to know of any exceptions.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#97

Post by lostlogin »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #40
zorked wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore than the US being able to strike worldwide to this very moment. They are the only country that has used nuclear bombs against civilians. The big problem is having one country be able to do it without deterrents and with impunity. MAD is a good thing, if anyone will have those things at all.

One of those things is scarier to American school children and their teachers than the other.

School children aren’t easily scared by boogie men, but maybe they should be. The Iranian girls found this out.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#98

Post by 9dev »

account42 wrote: post #85
9dev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of you ever manages to answer the waste storage question. That was, and still is, one of the deciding factors in Germany, for example.

Because its an irrelevant problem. The amount of waste nuclear produces is miniscule.

It’s only irrelevant to you as long as it doesn’t leak into your ground water supply after a few decades down the line, when we discover the containment didn’t resist corrosion as well as we thought. The danger of nuclear waste does not correspond to the amount at all.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#99

Post by pjmlp »

lionkor wrote: post #92
pjmlp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No one died directly from the disaster. However, 40 to 50 people were injured as a result of physical injury from the blast, or radiation burns." Selective view of the victims?

Brown coal power kills that many people in a good year directly, not mentioning the long term health effects of exposure to brown coal smoke (even if filtered).

Yeah people are sniffing lines of coal. /s

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#100

Post by lostlogin »

account42 wrote: post #85
9dev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of you ever manages to answer the waste storage question. That was, and still is, one of the deciding factors in Germany, for example.

Because its an irrelevant problem. The amount of waste nuclear produces is miniscule.

> The amount of waste nuclear produces is miniscule.

And yet people worry about it and the OP claims it led to the situation in Germany.

Maybe addressing the issue needs to occur, rather than dismissing it?

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