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Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

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Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#71

Post by Mashimo »

cluckindan wrote: post #44
01100011 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most backward looking judgements these days, such things require understanding the culture and zeitgeist of the mid 70s. I'm pro-nuclear as well, but understand that for many decades the "smart" thing to do was to oppose it. I wouldn't expect a musical artist to have a more nuanced opinion than most of their contemporaries.

More like the robot thing to do. Anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany was entirely manufactured; it was the product of Gerhard Schröder and similar robots who enriched themselves on Russian oil and gas. Ironically, it is also where the so-called Green Party began.

You still can't eat Mushrooms and wild Boar meet has to be tested in certain places in Germany. That was before Schröder.

Combine that with political decision to put waste into Asse II. Not because it was a good place, just screw with East Germany.

Big demonstration like Brokdorf where around 81. Schroeder begun being a Ministerpräsident in 1990, and 1998 Bundeskanzler.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#72

Post by happymellon »

soperj wrote: post #57
happymellon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anti-vax liberals Just a small correction, but the anti-vax arguments are very conservative, not liberal.

hate to tell you this, but there's a whole contingent of "granola moms" who won't vax their children. They're the same people that subscribe to those teething stones that are really only a strangulation risk.

Yep, and a lot of what they say is deeply conspiratorial conservative rhetoric.

They may be self described liberal, but their actions certainly aren't.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#73

Post by account42 »

01100011 wrote: post #25
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Like most backward looking judgements these days, such things require understanding the culture and zeitgeist of the mid 70s. I'm pro-nuclear as well, but understand that for many decades the "smart" thing to do was to oppose it. I wouldn't expect a musical artist to have a more nuanced opinion than most of their contemporaries.

No it was never the smart thing, always an uninformed emotional reaction based on fear.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#75

Post by GJim »

thombat wrote: post #49
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviets were parking nukes in Cuba in striking distance of the White House. If that's not legitimately terrifying to you, I just don't know.

Which directly followed the USA stationing Jupiter missiles in Turkey with the range to strike Moscow. As part of the mutual climb down from the missile crisis the USA removed the Jupiters, as both sides then understood the wisdom of avoiding hot brinkmanship

It's genuinely amazing how few people in the USA appear to be aware of what you have written.

It'd be nice to put jingoism aside for a change.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#76

Post by atoav »

account42 wrote: post #73
01100011 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like most backward looking judgements these days, such things require understanding the culture and zeitgeist of the mid 70s. I'm pro-nuclear as well, but understand that for many decades the "smart" thing to do was to oppose it. I wouldn't expect a musical artist to have a more nuanced opinion than most of their contemporaries.

No it was never the smart thing, always an uninformed emotional reaction based on fear.

I grew in the area most hit by Chernobyl fallout in Europe. The disfigured newborn kids who didn't make it would probably not share your view.

My girlfriends first older brother was one of those babies, the second one survived but is disfigured and needs serious care to live. I had three such kids in my first class at school, four different ones in my second and a sizeable number of parents whose kids didn't survive childbirth. Not being allowed to eat certain mushrooms or digging in the woods was the easier part.

So this may be a bit more tangible for some people than for others.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#77

Post by lxgr »

MomsAVoxell wrote: post #12
lovemenot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> only to replace it with Russian oil with Russian gas.

s/Russian/American/ Either way, Germany has perfected the efficient foot bullet, at least. I could imagine Kraftwerk devising a stonkin’ “Fußkugel” track, actually ..

Check your facts, please: Germans figuratively shoot themselves in the knee, not the foot ;)

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#78

Post by boshomi »

ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Nuclear power has been killed off by economic forces; there’s no turning back. Solar and wind power generate cheap electricity in abundance, and midday electricity prices in Europe regularly dip into negative territory (as low as minus €500 (sic!) on May 1!).

Modern grids do not require high-risk investments in ultra-inert baseload power that ultimately fails to find a market; instead, they require low-risk investments in highly flexible power sources, such as batteries or pumped-storage facilities and transmission upgrades, that can capture surplus electricity at low cost (sometimes negativ) and sell it hours later at favorable prices.

The 2036 electricity futures price for Germany is €70/MWh. The break-even point for France’s EDF for old nuclear power plants that had long since been written off financially was at roughly the same level in 2020. Due to rising labor costs, their break-even point is now significantly higher. There were solid economic reasons why EDF was recently nationalized 100%. New nuclear power plant construction in France is a foreseeable economic disaster. Private investors would have fled long ago.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#79

Post by pjmlp »

ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

I just saw the Fukushima documentary over the weekend, no thanks.

Re: Kraftwerk's radical 1976 track

#80

Post by pjmlp »

01100011 wrote: post #25
ainch wrote: post #11

I love Kraftwerk, but contributing to anti-nuclear sentiment in Germany hasn't been a major success. If only more European countries had followed the French example and developed substantial nuclear fleets.

Like most backward looking judgements these days, such things require understanding the culture and zeitgeist of the mid 70s. I'm pro-nuclear as well, but understand that for many decades the "smart" thing to do was to oppose it. I wouldn't expect a musical artist to have a more nuanced opinion than most of their contemporaries.

I rather not have another Fukushima or Chernobyl in Europe.
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