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Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

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Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#11
post #2

> The career of a pro athlete has a maximum lifespan of around fifteen years. You have the opportunity to make a lot of money until around your mid-thirties, at which point your body just can’t keep up with it. If you believe this about your software career, how do you think your going to switch into another career as a junior and keep up?

[dead]

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#12
post #3

Are people seriously thinking that you can make yourself dumber by using a chat UI? If talking to an AI makes me dumber and a limited career, then all the customer support people that ever existed were in the same or worse position talking to dumb humans on chat all day answering tickets always about the same topics and linking the same docs over and over. This makes no sense.

You can definitely feel it when you talk against an AI vs doing the churn yourself. It's comfortable, simple, it doesn't aggravate you.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#13
post #3

Are people seriously thinking that you can make yourself dumber by using a chat UI? If talking to an AI makes me dumber and a limited career, then all the customer support people that ever existed were in the same or worse position talking to dumb humans on chat all day answering tickets always about the same topics and linking the same docs over and over. This makes no sense.

You're misrepresenting the potential problem. It's more along the lines of using AI stops you exercising the cognitive processes you would doing things yourself and those encompass skills, knowledge and brain function that can atrophy. For an extreme example you can look at cognitive decline in the elderly which can be mitigated by taking part in activities that are cognitively stimulating.

Can you comment on other jobs though? The large majority of jobs require no big mental effort? Even switching from programming to management would go through that. Under that light it'd be impossible for a manager to ever become technical again because they'd atrophy so quickly?

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#14

It will be for those fixing AI slop software. (In fact, they might need several lifetimes.)

Why do people think there will be fixing AI slop software? I see that opinion here and there on HN. The cost of codegen is next to nothing. It makes no sense to spend large sums of money having an engineer fix something that could be generated over and over until gods of stochasticity come in your favour.

We've entered a period of single-use-plastic software, piling up and polluting everything, because it's cheaper than the alternative

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#15
Unless I'm missing something, there's an obvious logic issue here.

If we truly need to sacrifice our skill to be productive by using LLMs that atrophy us, then the only devs that have a limited lifespan are us. The next ones won't have a skillset to atrophy since they won't have built it through manual work.

Also, I hereby propose to publicly ban the "LLMs generating code are like compilers generating machine code" analogy, it's getting old to reargue the same idea time after time.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#16

Was it ever? It's always seemed weird to me that people even think 'software engineering' is a career. It's a tool for knowledge work. No carpenter is a specialist in drills. It seems to me that the best way to navigate a long term career is to have another specialty and use software engineering as a tool within that specialty.

Software engineering isn't a tool, it's the task.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#17

Was it ever? It's always seemed weird to me that people even think 'software engineering' is a career. It's a tool for knowledge work. No carpenter is a specialist in drills. It seems to me that the best way to navigate a long term career is to have another specialty and use software engineering as a tool within that specialty.

> No carpenter is a specialist in drills.

There's no category difference between being an expert in carpentry vs masonry and being an expert in drills vs hammers. They are both just areas of expertise.

Going down the path of trying to define what is expert functions and what is "merely" a tool using anything but descriptive technique is nonsense.

Expert functions are just those areas where using a tool is sufficiently difficult to require expertise.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#18
If by software engineering, one means typing code character by character into a text editor, sure it's going to be difficult to find someone to pay you for it.

If you mean creating software, well we are creating more software than ever before and the definition of what software is has never been so diverse. I can see many different careers branching off from here.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#19

Was it ever? It's always seemed weird to me that people even think 'software engineering' is a career. It's a tool for knowledge work. No carpenter is a specialist in drills. It seems to me that the best way to navigate a long term career is to have another specialty and use software engineering as a tool within that specialty.

I kind of disagree. You are describing a kind person who is extremely valuable, a person who is proficient in SWE but also has domain specific skills in some niche.

That's great, but its nowhere near the norm, and people have been doing generalist software engineering for decades. There has been a sufficient amount of work for a long time to be performed by generalists that it has been a very reasonable career.

IMO AI is the first thing that has ever actually challenged that.

Re: Software engineering may no longer be a lifetime career

#20
I keep reading about how AI will be fine because people can just retrain for different careers. However, I never read what those careers are or who is going to pay for retraining.

I certainly don't have the money or time to go back to college and start a new career at the bottom.

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