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PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

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Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#111
post #5

It’s starting to feel like we may need to go back to the model where you need to be invited to be able to submit code or PRs. The barrier is just too low now for popular projects.

Forks need to be normalized again. Logistically & brand-wise, they're messy to deal with, but they result in a "filter" of sorts that the original project can pick & choose to upstream back into their code.

> Forks need to be normalized again

No one's going to be trusting forks or new projects for a while. The bar for merely generating new code is now too low to give a meaningful signal. Reputation and longevity will likely be useful metrics, hence the AI pull-requests will continue to be opened against high-reputation projects that have strong brands. Not unlike Ethereums the switch from proof of work to proof if stake

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a hammer had a chat interface that said everything was a nail then the answer would be yes, the hammer lies to you about everything being a nail.

If someone believes a hammer when it tells them such things, they should probably have some sort of a caretaker assigned to help them through life.

If hammer companies were suddenly the most valuable international companies, and spent millions on ad campaigns and lobbying about trusting the hammer interface, then you can assume a large amount of people might trust the hammer interface

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#113
post #99
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the hammer lie to you that everything is a nail? Can a voltmeter _lie_ to you? EE are expected to know when their measurements are wrong. And Professional Engineers are legally accountable for consequences of such mistakes.

If software engineering wants to progress past being an "art" and be considered an engineering discipline, then it should adopt methods and practices from engineering. First and foremost, one of the universal methodologies is analysis of root cause in faults, and redundancies to avoid that. e.g. the FAA has two pilots for planes, and each system is built in redundantly so if an engineer misses a bolt or rivet, the pl…

> I feel like if most developers were actually serious about being an engineering discipline, like we claim, then we wouldn't have all jumped on the LLM bandwagon until they'd been properly tested and had a certain level of reliability

Development can’t be a “serious” engineering discipline because the economics of tech companies doesn’t allow for it. But this has a lot less to do about developers, and significantly more to do with the severe pressure company executives are putting on everyone to use AI, no matter what.

But let’s be honest, many companies have adopted things like root cause analysis and blameless postmortems to deal with infrastructure reliability and reducing incidents. Making systems resilient to human mistakes, making it impossible for the typo to blow up a database, etc. are considered best practices at most places I’ve worked. On the product side, I think it’s absolutely normal to make it hard for a user to take an action that would seriously mess up their account.

The core problem happens when your product idea (say, social media) has vast negative externalities which the company isn’t forced to deal with economically. Whereas in other engineering disciplines, many things are actually safety related and you could get sued over. I’m imagining pretty much anything a structural engineer or electrical engineer works on could seriously hurt or kill someone if a bad enough mistake was made.

That just doesn’t apply to software. There is a lot of “life & death” software, but it’s more niche. The reality is that 90% of what the tech industry works on is not capable of physically harming humans, and it’s not really possible to sue over the potential negative consequences of… a dev tooling startup? It’s a very, very different industry than those other engineering disciplines work in.

But, software engineering has actually been extremely successful at minimizing risk from software defects. The most likely worst software level mistake I could make could… crash my own program. It likely wouldn’t even crash the operating system since it’s isolated. That lack of trust in what other people might do is codified everywhere in software. On an iPhone, I’m downloading apps edited by tens of thousands of other engineers, at essentially no risk to myself at all.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#114
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone believes a hammer when it tells them such things, they should probably have some sort of a caretaker assigned to help them through life.

If hammer companies were suddenly the most valuable international companies, and spent millions on ad campaigns and lobbying about trusting the hammer interface, then you can assume a large amount of people might trust the hammer interface

Where are the ad campaigns telling me to trust LLMs?

I don’t use an adblocker, do read traditional dead tree newspapers and do get exposed to satellite tv channels.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone anywhere telling me how reliable LLMs are.

Pretty sure this tech sells itself to consumers, enterprise sales are what they’ve always been.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#115
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If hammer companies were suddenly the most valuable international companies, and spent millions on ad campaigns and lobbying about trusting the hammer interface, then you can assume a large amount of people might trust the hammer interface

Where are the ad campaigns telling me to trust LLMs? I don’t use an adblocker, do read traditional dead tree newspapers and do get exposed to satellite tv channels. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone anywhere telling me how reliable LLMs are. Pretty sure this tech sells itself to consumers, enterprise sales are what they’ve always been.

So now you're pivoting away from the caretaker proposal? I thought it had potential but I don't know how you'd fund it.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are the ad campaigns telling me to trust LLMs? I don’t use an adblocker, do read traditional dead tree newspapers and do get exposed to satellite tv channels. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone anywhere telling me how reliable LLMs are. Pretty sure this tech sells itself to consumers, enterprise sales are what they’ve always been.

So now you're pivoting away from the caretaker proposal? I thought it had potential but I don't know how you'd fund it.

> I thought it had potential but I don't know how you'd fund it.

The same way we fund other social services here in Europe. If an individual is incapable of caring for themselves, the state is expected to care for them.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#117
We learned from the past litellm security incident that there are tons of compromised/fake GitHub stars (which was known from the past due to the star farms)

I don't see vibe coders trying to push PRs in good faith in a old emulator. Could it be that the sheer amount of PRs and eventually a bad PR in the middle is being used to compromise repositories?

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#118
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is a tooling problem. The tooling is telling laymen that they built wonderful things that definitely work and perfectly fix and add features. The tooling gasses them up and is simply wrong in these cases. If your tool regularly lies, gaslights and produces wrong results, that's a tooling issue.

Does the hammer lie to you that everything is a nail? Can a voltmeter _lie_ to you? EE are expected to know when their measurements are wrong. And Professional Engineers are legally accountable for consequences of such mistakes.

If I had a hammer robot that I told to go hammer some nails in a birdhouse and it goes "Sure, I'm on it!" then it nails a cat to the wall and says "Here's you new complete birdhouse, it's perfect in everyway and will make everyone jealous", then yes, that is a tooling issue.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#119
If someone doesn't understand every bit of the PR they are submitting it should not be submittable - yes it takes time, but you are expecting devs on the other end to take more time than that.

Though one plus point: a dev can ask the LLM to:

- Split a PR into logical patches - Explain each one

From there as questions and edit and rebase each until it makes sense, because it's guaranteed that not all of it will until you do that.

Re: PS3 Emulator Devs Politely Ask That People Stop Flooding It with AI PRs

#120

We learned from the past litellm security incident that there are tons of compromised/fake GitHub stars (which was known from the past due to the star farms) I don't see vibe coders trying to push PRs in good faith in a old emulator. Could it be that the sheer amount of PRs and eventually a bad PR in the middle is being used to compromise repositories?

It's for their CV's
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