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I'm going back to writing code by hand

blog.k10s.dev

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Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#121

Post by jimsojim »

baddash wrote: post #89
jimsojim wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a legitimate set of rules to follow for maintaining code sanity and a solid mental model of how a codebase may grow, it’s always challenging to stick to them in a workplace where expectations around delivery speed have changed drastically with the onset of AI. The sweet spot lies in striking a balance between staying connected to the codebase and not becoming a limiting factor for the team at the same t…

That's kind of what I figured, sadly. I haven't experienced it personally yet since I got let go from my last job about 14 months ago, but it makes so much sense given how management is so willing to sacrifice quality for speed.

Another frustrating thing that has emerged from this is where managers “vibe code” half-baked ideas for a couple of hours and then hand it off as if they’ve meaningfully contributed to the implementation. Suddenly you’re expected to reverse engineer incoherent prompts, inconsistent code, and random abstractions that nobody fully understands.

In their mind they’ve already done the “architectural heavy lifting” and accelerated the team. More often than not it just adds cognitive overhead where you spend more time deciphering and cleaning up garbage than actually building the thing properly from scratch.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#122

Post by auggierose »

brabel wrote: post #103
baddash wrote: post #76

I've set a few rules for working with coding agents: 1. If I use a coding agent to generate code, it should be something I am absolutely confident I can code correctly myself given the time (gun to my head test). 2. If it isn't, I can't move on until I completely understand what it is that has been generated, such that I would be able to recreate it myself. 3. I can create debt (I believe this is being called Cogniti…

I was trying to follow similar rules, until one day I had to solve a hard mathematical problem. Claude is a phd level mathematician, I am not. I, however, know exactly the properties of the desired solution and how to test it’s correct. So I decided to keep Claude’s solution over my basic, naive one. I mentioned that in the pull request and everyone agreed that was the right call. Would you open exceptions like that…

I definitely wouldn't put math in my code I didn't understand just because Claude says so. I am not astonished that everyone agreed, that's why shit is going to hit the fan pretty badly pretty soon due to AI coding.

There is one exception to this: If the AI also delivers the proof of why the math is correct, in a machine-checked format, and I understand the correctness theorem (not necessarily its proof). Then I would use it without hesitation.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#123

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

snowe2010 wrote: post #34

> The other change is simpler: I'm doing the design work myself, by hand, before any code gets written. Not a vague doc. Concrete interfaces, message types, ownership rules. That’s the hard part of coding. If you have an architecture then writing the code is dead simple. If you aren’t writing the code you aren’t going to notice when you architected an API that allows nulls but then your database doesn’t. Or that it d…

Yes, I think there's 2 kinds of developer. Those who think the code is the hard part, and those that don't.

The developers that thing coding is hard are the ones that absolutely love AI coding. It's changed their world because things they used to find hard are now easy.

Those that think coding is easy don't have such an easy time because coding to them is all about the abstractions, the maintainability and extensibility. They want to lay sensible foundations to allow the software to scale. This is the hard part. When you discover the right abstractions everything becomes relatively easy. But getting there is the hard part. These people find AI coding a useful tool but not the crazy amazing magical tool the people who struggle with coding do.

The OP is definitely in the second camp since they could spot and realise the shortcomings of the AI. They spotted the problem, and that problem is that the AI can't do the hard bit.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#124

Post by dzhiurgis »

gritzko wrote: post #104
baddash wrote: post #76

I've set a few rules for working with coding agents: 1. If I use a coding agent to generate code, it should be something I am absolutely confident I can code correctly myself given the time (gun to my head test). 2. If it isn't, I can't move on until I completely understand what it is that has been generated, such that I would be able to recreate it myself. 3. I can create debt (I believe this is being called Cogniti…

I just had a Claude episode. Instead of trying to fix the bug, it edited the data to hide the bug in the sample run. This kind of BS behavior is not rare. Absolutely, if you do not understand every bit of what's going on, you end up with a pile of BS.

That’s why I love gemini - none of this bullshit ever happen.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#125

Post by nikau »

nertirs3 wrote: post #97
TranquilMarmot wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great until the "gun to your head" is your skip-level manager demanding that a feature be implemented by the end of the week, and they know you can just "generate it with AI" so that timeline is actually realistic now whereas two years ago it would have required careful planning, testing, and execution.

I hate this current trend of managers deciding, what tools developers have to use. Hopefully it ends soon.

Time will tell if outages and defect resolution sky rocket or if ai can deal with it

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#126

Post by my-next-account »

Laoujin wrote: post #102

I'm just wondering: you know what architecture you want to go to now and you have the tests... can't you just let Claude refactor it to the better architecture? Also 1600 lines... didn't any agent reviewing the diffs point that out? You're also adding a lot to claude.md, I dunno how much that file has grown but a big claude.md file with many instructions, I don't think the ai will be able to remember all those rules.

> can't you just let Claude refactor it to the better architecture?

In my experience, no. These tools suck at refactoring, mostly choosing to add more code instead.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#127

Post by adrianN »

Jweb_Guru wrote: post #106
brabel wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was trying to follow similar rules, until one day I had to solve a hard mathematical problem. Claude is a phd level mathematician, I am not. I, however, know exactly the properties of the desired solution and how to test it’s correct. So I decided to keep Claude’s solution over my basic, naive one. I mentioned that in the pull request and everyone agreed that was the right call. Would you open exceptions like that…

> Claude is a phd level mathematician Unfortunately, it is not, and many of its attempts at mathematical proofs have major flaws. You shouldn't trust its proofs unless you are already able to evaluate them--which I think is pretty much all the OP is saying.

To be fair, many of the proof attempts that mathematicians do also have major flaws. Most get caught before getting published.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#128

Post by adrianN »

nikau wrote: post #125
nertirs3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate this current trend of managers deciding, what tools developers have to use. Hopefully it ends soon.

Time will tell if outages and defect resolution sky rocket or if ai can deal with it

Does that matter that much in practice? I bet lots of costumers are okay with software that crashes 10x as much if it costs 10x less. There already is a ton of shitty software that still sells.

Re: I'm going back to writing code by hand

#130

Post by 6LLvveMx2koXfwn »

jimsojim wrote: post #121
baddash wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of what I figured, sadly. I haven't experienced it personally yet since I got let go from my last job about 14 months ago, but it makes so much sense given how management is so willing to sacrifice quality for speed.

Another frustrating thing that has emerged from this is where managers “vibe code” half-baked ideas for a couple of hours and then hand it off as if they’ve meaningfully contributed to the implementation. Suddenly you’re expected to reverse engineer incoherent prompts, inconsistent code, and random abstractions that nobody fully understands. In their mind they’ve already done the “architectural heavy lifting” and acc…

I am lucky to have never worked in a team where my manager wouldn't expect strong push back in this scenario. Many of the corporate environments described on here seem dystopian, this included.
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