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Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

janrosenow.substack.com

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Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#121

Post by spiderfarmer »

PowerElectronix wrote: post #104
pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

To add to this, Spain gets it gas from Algeria, the rest of europe gets it from Russia and the middle east. So yeah, It's easy to have better prices when your gas is comparatively free from disruptions.

Check your facts.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#122

Post by gusgus01 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #68
pyrale wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or heck at least it's a well understood, solved problem. It is not. As a case in my point, Spain had a blackout last year (and I completely believe they are competent professionals - the task is just hard ). > It's just that those interconnections haven't been built yet. They haven't been built because the grid isn't just a technical problem. It's also a socioeconomic problem, and adding new interconnections would…

Hard is relative. Sure, it's hard, but it's a lot simpler problem than something like being able to consume tropical fruit in a temperate country in the middle of winter. The difference of course is that the invisible hand of the market gets that fruit into grocery stores. For various relatively good reasons, power is driven by very visible hands.

There are quite a few visible hands driving the fruit industry. Trade agreements, tariffs, water rights, disease/blight controls, and of course weather events/patterns are regularly in the news and discussed as it pertains to the cost and availability of various fruits (and veg).

Off the top of my head, we've recently had shortages of fresh strawberries because of weather in California, a shortage of peas because of weather too, and various changes in Trump's tariffs were done to try and alleviate the rising cost of certain fruit and veg.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#123

Post by pibaker »

bot403 wrote: post #60
blitzar wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in Australia, have a house and roof, you're a bloody idiot if you didnt install solar.

You don't even need a roof. If you have enough land then a ground mount system is more convenient and easier to maintain.

I think by having a roof GP meant lives in a house instead of an apartment. If you don't have your own roof you probably don't have land either.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#125

Post by troad »

cheema33 wrote: post #110
hunterpayne wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is a mix of facts and figures on the supply side. However, the real reason for the current cheap prices is the lack of demand. Spain's economy isn't doing well and they have hurt their tourism industry with politics. That's most of the reason for the temporarily cheap power that they mostly import from their neighbor. Being dishonest about their energy policy is pure politics.

> Spain's economy isn't doing well and they have hurt their tourism industry with politics. I don't live in Spain. And this is the first I have heard about their politics keeping tourists away. Can you elaborate?

There have been protests against tourism in Spanish cities, esp. Barcelona.

As always, the protests are really about local issues (lack of housing, jobs, etc) and foreigners are being scapegoated. A lot of this has a dark edge - e.g. locals spraying water on people that appear foreign to them. The framing around sustainability and 'over-tourism' allows the far left to get in on the xenophobia that's been so useful to the far right. Much easier to attack foreigners than actually come up with solutions to deliver more housing or jobs.

Media narratives aside, these incidents have not affected tourism at all. Spain is and continues to be a massive tourism destination, and the average tourist has never even heard of any of this.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#126

Post by cindyllm »

troad wrote: post #125
cheema33 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spain's economy isn't doing well and they have hurt their tourism industry with politics. I don't live in Spain. And this is the first I have heard about their politics keeping tourists away. Can you elaborate?

There have been protests against tourism in Spanish cities, esp. Barcelona. As always, the protests are really about local issues (lack of housing, jobs, etc) and foreigners are being scapegoated. A lot of this has a dark edge - e.g. locals spraying water on people that appear foreign to them. The framing around sustainability and 'over-tourism' allows the far left to get in on the xenophobia that's been so useful to…

[dead]

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#127

Post by randochatter »

troad wrote: post #125
cheema33 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spain's economy isn't doing well and they have hurt their tourism industry with politics. I don't live in Spain. And this is the first I have heard about their politics keeping tourists away. Can you elaborate?

There have been protests against tourism in Spanish cities, esp. Barcelona. As always, the protests are really about local issues (lack of housing, jobs, etc) and foreigners are being scapegoated. A lot of this has a dark edge - e.g. locals spraying water on people that appear foreign to them. The framing around sustainability and 'over-tourism' allows the far left to get in on the xenophobia that's been so useful to…

You should correct this article, they don't know Spain's tourism is in shambles either. https://apnews.com/article/spain-record-foreign-tourists-5aa...

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#128

Post by [deleted] »

gman83 wrote: post #50
mono442 wrote: post #48

The reality is that expensive electricity in the EU is by design. The EU ETS imposes heavy taxes on fossil fuels (and they are set to increase even more), which in turn causes the price of electricity to rise. Fully renewable electricity generation is still a long way off, so this will continue for a long time. But it is entirely a self-imposed political problem and could easily be fixed by getting rid of the EU ETS…

Yeah, crippling Europe in the long term for short term gain might not be the best idea - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/apr/15/critical...

[deleted]

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#129

Post by [deleted] »

pyrale wrote: post #46
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But all commodities are like this. It is actually pretty easy to send some electrons great distances, or heck at least it's a well understood, solved problem. It's just that those interconnections haven't been built yet. Heck, oil is probably the "default" example of what a commodity is, but we're now all acutely aware of what happens when moving that oil from one place to another becomes exceedingly difficult.

> or heck at least it's a well understood, solved problem. It is not. As a case in my point, Spain had a blackout last year (and I completely believe they are competent professionals - the task is just hard ). > It's just that those interconnections haven't been built yet. They haven't been built because the grid isn't just a technical problem. It's also a socioeconomic problem, and adding new interconnections would…

[deleted]

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#130

Post by mixmastamyk »

koolba wrote: post #119
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain also has pretty sensible legislation that is somewhat green. For large public areas the lowest allowed AC setting is 27°C / 81°F. Where-as in America you'll go to a mall and it'll be 65°F. https://www.catalannews.com/politics/item/spain-limits-air-c... Probably doesn't make a ton of difference. But I found that very respectable. It made me hopeful they have other basic green sensibilities.

> Spain also has pretty sensible legislation that is somewhat green. For large public areas the lowest allowed AC setting is 27°C / 81°F. As a red blooded American, this is the funniest thing I’ve seen all weekend.

Sounds good to me. One thing I hate in the summer is being dressed in shorts and t-shirt then going inside and freezing because the AC is on full blast.
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