Being able to cut out abuse from things like cheaters is too useful of a tool for developers to give up. The big problem here as mentioned in the thread is that the light of approved hardware is not based off of security of maintaining security of the attested application but upon Play services licensing.
Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
291–300 of 799 posts
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU does regulate Google and Apple through the DSA and the DMA. I don't think most EU politicians are corrupted by these companies. I think it is far more likely that it is a lack of knowledge and incompetence. I am pretty sure that the majority of Parliament members, Council members and maybe even Commission members do not even know that there are viable alternatives outside Google (certified) Android and iOS. So…
> I think it is far more likely that it is a lack of knowledge and incompetence. I agree with that. Reading HN comments, where people are supposed to be generally tech-savvy, I see a ton of "lack of knowledge and incompetence" (not in a negative way, just "uninformed"). Why should politicians know better than the average tech-savvy person? But politicians get yelled at by everybody, saying everything and its contrary…
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. After Snowden, there's absolutely no reason to believe that governments "accidentally" push for policies that strengthen surveillance and control over our digital lives. It's ridiculous to believe in the goodwill of those in power when these kinds of proposals are made over and over again despite strong pushback.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#293In 1999, Intel received an absolutely massive amount of opposition when they decided to include a software-readable serial number in their CPUs, so much that they reversed the decision. Then the "security" and Trusted Computing authoritarians continued pushing for TPMs and related tech, and contributed to the rise of mobile walled gardens. Windows 11's TPM requirements were another step towards their goal. The amount…
> In 1999, Intel received an absolutely massive amount of opposition when they decided to include a software-readable serial number in their CPUs, so much that they reversed the decision.
> It turns out a significant (but hopefully decreasing) number of the population is easily coerced into anything when "security" is given as a justification.
The people who opposed Intel are now telling each other how hopeless and powerless they are. You can see it on HN, in this thread: No drive, outrage, and self-organizing response to these issues, but despair - 'nobody cares', 'there's nothing we can do', etc. Quitting is a sure way to lose.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#294Taken a step further, we could be heading for a world where if you don't run the Dictators approved device including all of its spyware, you're locked out of everything.
I'm sure this will happen in non-free countries quickly if Hardware Attestation becomes commonplace to access basic services.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
TFA is authored by the developers of an alternative operating system that can be freely installed on every Google phone since Pixel 6.
....and this is only Google phones solely because NONE of the alternatives meet the team's stringent security requirements.
The graphene project seems to choose security over freedom in a few cases. They also recommend using the Google Play store over F-droid IIRC.
Not my preference, but they seem so far ahead of other ROMs right now that I use it still.
I do believe people have built and installed it on other devices without too much trouble, but I don't think that'll ever be supported.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/michigan-towns-ru...
As usual, the story is much more nuanced and complicated than the simplistic and convenient narrative of "ignoring the public." And reading diluted blogspam like Tom's Hardware doesn't help. Here is the full story: (Source: https://archive.ph/Kiyn9 ) > The commission rejected the plan to rezone the farmland [that would allow the data center to be built]. The township board followed suit, voting 4–1 to deny it. But lo…
So a vote happened, and when it didn’t go their way, huge company threatened a huge lawsuit that the township and citizens couldn’t afford, to get their way anyway. Standard corporate bullying tactic in America.
The story perfectly exemplifies how little democratic control the public has over what corporations do in and do to their community.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
Remote attestation is a technology, not a policy or a political effort, so it can't be inherently evil. You can disagree with all its known or proposed uses, but then I think it makes more sense to name these.
DRM is a technology and is inherently evil. Web attestation is DRM for the web, and is inherently evil. Age ID is a technology and is inherently evil. We have over 30 years of the world wide web and for these more than 3 decades this was never a problem. Suddenly, we "need" to create new technology that seem to be security features, but are essentially just being used for evil, thus being inherently bad. It's not lik…
>We have over 30 years of the world wide web and for these more than 3 decades this was never a problem.
Are you seriously trying to suggest copyright infringement has not been an issue over the last 30 years? Both of them are solutions to problems that we've had over the last 30 years and were created for the greater good to solve problems that developers were facing.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
So with a single flip of the switch, the president of the USA can shut down our EU Digital Identity Wallet. Why was this decision ever made?
> Why was this decision ever made? because it wasn't made the decision which was made was having a digital ID wallet, that this needs hardware attestation (or something comparable) is somewhat of a direct consequence of existing laws/regulations regarding making IDs forgery safe it also is a phone only application the huge huge majority of phones runs Googled Android/iOS, so you support them if there where a relevant…
> having a digital ID wallet, that this needs hardware attestation (or something comparable) is somewhat of a direct consequence of existing laws/regulations regarding making IDs forgery safe
How do you figure? Isn't just having the digital ID be signed by a key belonging to the issuer good enough for that?
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
Anything involving trust cements the incumbents or at least creates a force to an outcome of few players. It is what it is. It's not a given that it's incompetence.
> Anything involving trust cements the incumbents or at least creates a force to an outcome of few players. I don't think that's even true, unless you're using "trust" as a synonym for centralization. Suppose you had actual competing app stores. Google doesn't control which ones you use; you can use Google Play or F-Droid or Amazon or all three at once and anyone can make a new one. You could get Android apps through…
You have given a situation where there are a 3 players - a very concentrated market. Give an example with 30 players and think through all the implications for all the actors. You'll quickly realize it's a total disaster. Building broad trust requires scale on some dimension.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is the alternative to not to pursue domestic spyware in the fist place. Especially because this is tied to the attempts to deanonymise Internet users.
It's also an attempt to keep various malefactors such as America, Russia, Israel, China, etc out off the propaganda efforts driving a large amount of far right nationalists into violent uprising.
Yes, comrade, those newsletters should be disposed because of evil foreign pяopoganda