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Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

bbc.com

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Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#21

Post by 627467 »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #16
irishcoffee wrote: post #2

All the single-working parents I know don’t have this complaint. The dual-working couples do. Seems pretty straightforward. Clearly my anecdotes do not apply to the rest of globe, just my observation.

Sure, likewise, if you live in a multi generational household, raising kids is a lot easier on average. But most people cannot have those things in modern Euromerican nations

> multi generational household

> most people cannot

I dont know if "cannot" is the right verb here. I bet if you asked enough euromericans if they'd choose to live with extended family the answer would be "only in extreme and deprived circumstances".

Isn't a common excuse for not having children that couples can't afford their own home?

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#22

Post by pitched »

zhivota wrote: post #18
rahidz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article: "It's not that modern parents are waking up more often. Work by Samson and others has found that people in hunter-gatherer societies usually wake more frequently through the night than we do." But I think there's a difference between waking up at night because your baby is crying, calming them down, going back to sleep, etc etc. when you have a 9-to-5 job, versus if you're a hunter-gatherer.

I spend a lot of time in the rural Philippines and I notice that locals out here don't sleep that well and it doesn't seem to bother them. They get up extremely early with the sun, roosters are crowing even before that, cats are fighting randomly through the night, storms kick up many nights in the area through the year, and then they sometimes stay up late singing karaoke, though most of the time they are in bed ear…

On studies showing napping increases lifespan and all the good things, a common complaint is that presence of naps is also an indicator of high socioeconomic status. This anecdote is a good counter to that!

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#23

Post by blindriver »

Is this a real question?

Until the advent of electricity, when it was nighttime, it was mostly pitch black dark, and there was nothing you can really do except go to sleep. These days you're up a lot longer and there are more distractions like work and social media to keep you up well into the night. If you ever go camping with no cell phone signal, you'll go to sleep much earlier as well and get a lot more sleep than modern living.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#24

Post by adverbly »

It's not the actual sleep.

It's that parenting is exhausting.

I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours.

But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained...

Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays.

And then that compounds over weeks.

It's totally exhausting. The modern model is totally unsustainable/not scalable, but I'm not sure what the alternative should be.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#25

Post by lotsofpulp »

adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

>but I'm not sure what the alternative should be.

A village where trusted neighbors and family members and a chain of kids in increasing ages can help look after each other.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#26

Post by temp0826 »

adverbly wrote: post #24

It's not the actual sleep. It's that parenting is exhausting. I could do physical labor for hours. Code straight for hours. But when I have to look after the 2 kids for 3 hours solo I'm totally exhausted. And I don't mean sit them in front of a TV - but actually try and feed them, change diapers, clean up after their messes, keep them entertained... Weekends are suddenly way more exhausting than weekdays. And then th…

"It takes a village"

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#27

Post by crooked-v »

627467 wrote: post #21
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, likewise, if you live in a multi generational household, raising kids is a lot easier on average. But most people cannot have those things in modern Euromerican nations

> multi generational household > most people cannot I dont know if "cannot" is the right verb here. I bet if you asked enough euromericans if they'd choose to live with extended family the answer would be "only in extreme and deprived circumstances". Isn't a common excuse for not having children that couples can't afford their own home?

Sure, but consider the economic factors that go into it. How many extended families would be perfectly happy to live together, but are unable to even consider it in the first place because of what the costs for that sort of multigenerational housing would look like?

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#28

Post by bethekidyouwant »

pedalpete wrote: post #9

This completely misses a few large points. 1) Though they are comparing parents specifically, without the baseline of what the hunter-gatherer groups sleep was like without children, are they comparing hunter-gatherer group to industrialized people? Or are they comparing parenting? 50% of people rate their sleep as an F, and another 21% a D grade [1]. That feels likely everyone is failing at sleep, not just parents.…

No reason for “parents” to be tacked on to this at all i reckon.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#29

Post by jleyank »

I didn’t see ages mentioned, but in the past, parents were probably 16-22 while today’s parents could be as old as 40+. The pieces work way better at those earlier ages, and aside from nutrition the ancient times let to more physically fit individuals. Hell, the average age of parents today might be the average lifespan of people back then.

Re: Why modern parents feel more sleep deprived than our ancestors did

#30

Post by swores »

pedalpete wrote: post #9

This completely misses a few large points. 1) Though they are comparing parents specifically, without the baseline of what the hunter-gatherer groups sleep was like without children, are they comparing hunter-gatherer group to industrialized people? Or are they comparing parenting? 50% of people rate their sleep as an F, and another 21% a D grade [1]. That feels likely everyone is failing at sleep, not just parents.…

> "That feels likely everyone is failing at sleep, not just parents."

This doesn't really mean anything for comparing parents with non-parents, since it's self-reported so "failing" could mean "missing several hours of needed sleep each night" to one person and "failing to hit higher-than-needed sleep target twice a week" to another.

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