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Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

janrosenow.substack.com

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Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#11

Post by pydry »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

The past few years has also had Solar continuing to decrease in price so its increasingly going to be the primary choice. On top of that battery prices have been plummeting too so that now Solar + battery is cheaper than other options like Nuclear and especially Gas. Most of the EU will be running on Wind and Solar in the coming years, its a change that is now rapidly occuring based entirely on the rare economics. So…

1/5th the price of nuclear.

Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price.

There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#12

Post by jonatron »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #10
jonatron wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old power station turbines can be repurposed as inertia services via a stability market. Example in the UK: https://www.neso.energy/news/deeside-power-station-begins-wo...

Batteries are sweeping stability markets wherever they are set up. They're simply cheaper and better at it.

I'm not sure this is true in the UK at least, which may be because the grid operator is conservative / cautious https://www.energy-storage.news/uk-grid-forming-batteries-mi...

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#13

Post by distances »

pydry wrote: post #11
PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

The past few years has also had Solar continuing to decrease in price so its increasingly going to be the primary choice. On top of that battery prices have been plummeting too so that now Solar + battery is cheaper than other options like Nuclear and especially Gas. Most of the EU will be running on Wind and Solar in the coming years, its a change that is now rapidly occuring based entirely on the rare economics. So…

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

Solar works also in the north, except in the winter of course, and it complements wind pretty well. So solar does make economic sense and is actively built in the north too.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#14

Post by laurencerowe »

distances wrote: post #13
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

Solar works also in the north, except in the winter of course, and it complements wind pretty well. So solar does make economic sense and is actively built in the north too.

The UK hit a record of 42% peak solar generation around midday one day last month.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2026/04/24/uk-solar-generation-h...

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#15

Post by joe_mamba »

happosai wrote: post #8
PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

The past few years has also had Solar continuing to decrease in price so its increasingly going to be the primary choice. On top of that battery prices have been plummeting too so that now Solar + battery is cheaper than other options like Nuclear and especially Gas. Most of the EU will be running on Wind and Solar in the coming years, its a change that is now rapidly occuring based entirely on the rare economics. So…

Not most of EU but geographically large and diverse and low-latitude countries will. Spain has winds from three different sea areas and is known sunny, so they are in a good position.

Well that' doesn't always scan. Austria has a lot of wind, sun and hydro so its energy prices should be in line with Sweden, Norway, Denmark amongst the cheapest in Europe, and yet it's routinely amongst the more expensive in the EU.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#16

Post by badpun »

pydry wrote: post #11
PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

The past few years has also had Solar continuing to decrease in price so its increasingly going to be the primary choice. On top of that battery prices have been plummeting too so that now Solar + battery is cheaper than other options like Nuclear and especially Gas. Most of the EU will be running on Wind and Solar in the coming years, its a change that is now rapidly occuring based entirely on the rare economics. So…

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

How much would it cost to build out batteries which cover entire continent's electricy needs for say three weeks (as there can be 2-3 week lulls of no wind and no sun in Europe in the winter)? Cause that sounds like a lot of batteries. Not to mention, if a freak 4 week lull occurs, we'll go back to Middle Ages for a week.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#17

Post by gpm »

badpun wrote: post #16
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

How much would it cost to build out batteries which cover entire continent's electricy needs for say three weeks (as there can be 2-3 week lulls of no wind and no sun in Europe in the winter)? Cause that sounds like a lot of batteries. Not to mention, if a freak 4 week lull occurs, we'll go back to Middle Ages for a week.

> (as there can be 2-3 week lulls of no wind and no sun in Europe in the winter)

This is simply entirely untrue. Europe's a big place, there's not a single day ever where there is no sun in it.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#18

Post by ZeroGravitas »

joe_mamba wrote: post #15
happosai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not most of EU but geographically large and diverse and low-latitude countries will. Spain has winds from three different sea areas and is known sunny, so they are in a good position.

Well that' doesn't always scan. Austria has a lot of wind, sun and hydro so its energy prices should be in line with Sweden, Norway, Denmark amongst the cheapest in Europe, and yet it's routinely amongst the more expensive in the EU.

Trading across borders seems to be a part of this story.

If your local price is high you can import, if it's low you can export.

If you're at the end of a grid and/or your transmission capacity is limited your price has the possibility to go higher or lower without that damping mechanism.

Electricitymaps has a pricing layer which seems to show central Europe moving in sync when I randomly check it:

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes?sig...

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#19

Post by energy123 »

badpun wrote: post #16
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

How much would it cost to build out batteries which cover entire continent's electricy needs for say three weeks (as there can be 2-3 week lulls of no wind and no sun in Europe in the winter)? Cause that sounds like a lot of batteries. Not to mention, if a freak 4 week lull occurs, we'll go back to Middle Ages for a week.

Australia's CSIRO studied this for Australia, renewables were half the cost of nuclear, factoring in storage and transmission for both renewables and nuclear (yes, nuclear also needs storage because energy demand varies with time). Australia is uniquely endowed with sun and land, so other countries/regions may arrive at different results.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#20

Post by pydry »

badpun wrote: post #16
pydry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/5th the price of nuclear. Probably when combined with batteries it is half the price. There are some colder areas in northern europe especially where solar doesnt work as well but they also tend to be better served for hydro (which can also store power).

How much would it cost to build out batteries which cover entire continent's electricy needs for say three weeks (as there can be 2-3 week lulls of no wind and no sun in Europe in the winter)? Cause that sounds like a lot of batteries. Not to mention, if a freak 4 week lull occurs, we'll go back to Middle Ages for a week.

You would likely get to 97% green energy first with 5-8 hours of storage: https://reneweconomy.com.au/a-near-100-per-cent-renewables-g...

(for Australia it is 5, for other countries it might be 8)

Once you get to that "nice to have" problem of what to do about the remaining 3% of power needs it would probably make most sense to synthesize and store gas (methane/hydrogen) from electricity when solar and wind is overproducing. Gas can be stored cheaply for long durations. The roundtrip efficiency is poor but it's still cheaper than nuclear power on the windiest sunniest day.

The nuclear + carbon lobbies would of course prefer to model green energy transitions by pretending that the wind and sun simultaneously turn off for 2 weeks at a time every year and that electricity can only be stored in very expensive batteries. This is not realistic.

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