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Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

grapheneos.social

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Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#31

Post by altairprime »

acgourley wrote: post #11

It's so obvious to me states need to create a soul bound identity system, replace social security numbers with it, and then let everyone else use cryptography on top of that (which is now cheap when you don't care about sybil attacks) to do private stuff.

You just need to deploy auditable (source-available, reproducible-build, firmware checksums LCD on-chip) biometrics booths that generate private keys from normalized biometric inputs, and then use those ephemeral private keys to generate and sign portable identity keys. Most people have fingerprints and retina patterns and that’s twelve signatures on an identity alone, allowing for continuity across severe biometrics events like regrown fingertips etc.

A nonprofit business could do this if backed by all existing dotcom and bitcoin billionaires. But they’d all want to profit from it, so either non-profit (NGO) or governmental it is.

Fun fact: this is already a core function of USPS. They serve as an identity verification hub for both US passports and their informed delivery and PO box services. They just have a human-dependent process rather than an identity-generator booth. So they’d be perfectly positioned to take your ID, hand you an attestation request QR code, and get your identity-signatures on it — without being able to reverse-engineer your biometrics from those signatures, but still being able to detect gross variances when someone else tries to lie about being you in a future verification.

Anyways, none of this will likely ever happen, but the rich tech folks could make it happen at any time if they cared to. Instead we get THE ORB which is doing retinas as a for-profit without auditable artifacts or hardware. Sigh.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#32

Post by throw7 »

samplifier wrote: post #7
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.

We already have a republic. If we can keep it.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#33

Post by daishi55 »

otterley wrote: post #28
samplifier wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.

If you live in a democracy, you already do run your own country. Vote accordingly. Get involved in politics.

There are mountains of academic research showing that even in “democracies”, public opinion rarely translates into policy (by design).

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#34

Post by Someone »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

IMO, it would be better if they removed the claim “It doesn't provide a useful security feature” because, even if it does, the collateral damage of making non-Google, non-Apple OSes second class citizens remains, and that is the main problem.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#35

Post by IdiotSavage »

samplifier wrote: post #7
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#36

Post by applfanboysbgon »

iamkrazy wrote: post #29

It's still not too late. With the help of Claude et. al, we can make a truly open mobile OS from ground up. We can make an app translater that can translate Android and iOS apps to our OS. We can make deals with manufacturers to start shipping phones with this OS. We have the will, there's enough of us on this site to make an impact. All ee need is good leadership. Please somebody with enough clout step up.

The OP is from an already-existing open mobile OS, which already has a deal with a manufacturer. The problem isn't, and has never been, making an OS. This is not a technical problem. This is a political problem.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#37

Post by rossjudson »

lpcvoid wrote: post #4
ls612 wrote: post #3

Asymmetric cryptography and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. I’m not even joking all of the centralization of power and the rise of totalitarianism tech is driving is downstream from asymmetric cryptography.

I disagree, I think you cast the net way too wide. Asymmetric cryptography enables secure communication in the first place. It's being used nefariously by Google and Apple, of course, but that's to be expected from big tech.

Nefariously how?

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#38

Post by ls612 »

amarant wrote: post #25
ls612 wrote: post #3

Asymmetric cryptography and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. I’m not even joking all of the centralization of power and the rise of totalitarianism tech is driving is downstream from asymmetric cryptography.

FFS, cryptography is not the problem. How many times will we have to shut down that particular stupidity? Asymmetric cryptography is a corner stone of basically all online secure communications, and has been since before Google and apple were even founded as companies! (First invented in 1970) When did Https ever hurt you? That's built on asymmetric cryptography. Wherever you see the word "secure" it's basically shor…

Easy there I don’t want to take away your encrypted messaging. I’m just pointing out that the technology that enables it also enables the techno-totalitarianism we have been seeing rise since the mid 2010s

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#39

Post by izacus »

CharlesW wrote: post #17

The thread is a bit vague. Am I understanding correctly that GrapheneOS Foundation's objection isn't to attestation per se, but that they can't participate in Google-controlled attestation APIs? In other words, although GrapheneOS can be cryptographically attested, apps using Google Play Integrity won’t accept it because it isn't Google-certified/GMS-licensed?

There's a thread awhile back where there were VERY angry at someone trying to setup their own attestation project database (essentially a list of known Android builds and their signatures).

They want apps to add their signing hashes manually just for them and don't want to join projects that would aggregate and act as a database or certificate authority.

Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler

#40

Post by riedel »

samplifier wrote: post #7
ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.

Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.

The question is rather: can political parties develop a vision beyond libertarian views or full state control on the other side.

I feel that we need a better political consensus on a free society that puts the monopoly of force in the hand of democratic legitimate forces. I currently feel that all digital violence lies in the hands of a few corporations. And at the same time there is politician that like this because they can through this proxy can indirectly execute control without any political legitimacy. Sorry, I do not believe in markets as guarantees for freedom. I have read too much dystopian sci-fi for that.

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