It's so obvious to me states need to create a soul bound identity system, replace social security numbers with it, and then let everyone else use cryptography on top of that (which is now cheap when you don't care about sybil attacks) to do private stuff.
Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
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Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#12[dead]
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#13This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.
Wouldn't the argument be that you'd build separate copies of those services as well?
Granted, for banking or government-interactions that isn't feasible, but wouldn't it for many other things? It would likely be more expensive given that the work to build something still needs to be done and the cost is distributed among fewer shoulders and the lower complexity since you don't need to build ad-tech doesn't make up for that, but I suppose that's a bit like quality food.
Hardware will be more difficult.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#14Well there you have it. > Governments are increasingly mandating using Apple's App Attest and Google's Play Integrity for not only their own services but also commercial services. The EU is leading the charge of making these requirements for digital payments, ID, age verification, etc. Many EU government apps require them. Even the "beloved" EU government is also in on it as well as banking apps are pushing for this…
> They do not care about you
By "they" you mean FAANG and the FTC, right? Telling the EU to respect the Open Web does nothing to protect users if you continue to approve the export of attested hardware. America is deliberately abetting authoritarian schemes.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#15I agree hw attestation is net negative when forced upon end users. OTOH, when service providers use it, it results in transparency to end users [1] so it's really about how it is used.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#16It's so obvious to me states need to create a soul bound identity system, replace social security numbers with it, and then let everyone else use cryptography on top of that (which is now cheap when you don't care about sybil attacks) to do private stuff.
The places you actually need an ID are so rare, I don't think it's worth it to build such a system (and no, porn or social network definitely aren't valid use cases).
It's a problem in search of a solution.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#17The thread is a bit vague. Am I understanding correctly that GrapheneOS Foundation's objection isn't to attestation per se, but that they can't participate in Google-controlled attestation APIs? In other words, although GrapheneOS can be cryptographically attested, apps using Google Play Integrity won’t accept it because it isn't Google-certified/GMS-licensed?
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#18This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.
Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.
I’m not sure why you’re asking this question, but you can run a country as a population of 1 (ie just yourself) if you wanted.
The problem being raised isn’t due to the size of the country though. It’s the size of the company (ie Apple and Google)
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#19It is definitely a monopoly enabler. But also a threat to speech. You can only participate online if you have attested hardware. And that hardware will be tied back to you. It’s another threat to privacy like age verification laws.
Re: Hardware Attestation as Monopoly Enabler
#20This is a really good thread on why this technology is becoming a problem for "open" anything. The argument "we can create our own separate web" is fine until all of your services are behind the web that locks you into owning a Google approved or Apple approved mobile device.
Are there enough of us to run our own country? It makes me feel dumb, but this is a serious question.
Where would you do that? Realistically, the question is one that cannot even be asked safely: are there enough of us to overthrow the existing systems and replace them with something better?
The answer to either question, really, is no. The powers that be have systematically implemented policies that keep us divided to prevent that eventual outcome.