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Getting arrested in Japan

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Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#181

Post by nihonde »

kelnos wrote: post #169
metacritic12 wrote: post #14

Seems like it's not pleasant, and the author says in theory it could be as low of a bar as getting into a heated argument; but the author never discloses his actual charge, which I think is critical context. If he stabbed someone and got this treatment, it would be very different than if he had a loud but normal argument you might see in any big box store in the US. That he doesn't go on to protest why he got locked…

It doesn't matter what her charge was. Even (alleged/suspected) serial murderers and rapists should be treated humanely and not experience psychological torture. And also remember this treatment is at the point where they haven't been charged with anything, haven't been tried in court, and haven't been convicted. The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric. And it's desi…

[flagged]

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#182

Post by PieTime »

wisty wrote: post #33
actionfromafar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrested not convicted.

In the US, it's seen as a God-given truth that no innocent person should ever be punished. Partly because it was founded (in part) by oppressed minorities fleeing states where the were constantly harassed by authorities. (Irony - the US's approach hardly fixed the issue). But is it OK to risk punishing a few innocent people if it greatly reduces the amount of suffering caused by crime?

Basically you’re talking about implementing The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. Many innocent people have been sentenced to death in the US. The idea that jail or punishment solves crime also has no basis in fact.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#183

Post by PieTime »

momentmaker wrote: post #168

This sounds like a monk-styled meditation retreat where one just get fed and can just keep doing meditation all day alone. Sounds a heaven for someone who is ready for it but hell for those whose thoughts run amok.

You getting one hour of sleep is meditating and no going outside?

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#184

Post by fzeroracer »

nihonde wrote: post #181
kelnos wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what her charge was. Even (alleged/suspected) serial murderers and rapists should be treated humanely and not experience psychological torture. And also remember this treatment is at the point where they haven't been charged with anything, haven't been tried in court, and haven't been convicted. The US's justice system is certainly lacking in many, many ways, but wow, this is barbaric. And it's desi…

[flagged]

The charges were dropped. Regardless of your opinions on how an orderly government or justice system should run or how criminals should be treated, in this situation what happened was an innocent person was tortured by the state.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#185

Post by kelnos »

wisty wrote: post #33
actionfromafar wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrested not convicted.

In the US, it's seen as a God-given truth that no innocent person should ever be punished. Partly because it was founded (in part) by oppressed minorities fleeing states where the were constantly harassed by authorities. (Irony - the US's approach hardly fixed the issue). But is it OK to risk punishing a few innocent people if it greatly reduces the amount of suffering caused by crime?

> In the US, it's seen as a God-given truth that no innocent person should ever be punished.

That's a rather rose-tinted view of criminal justice here... I do hear that sentiment a lot here, but it's just words, and as you sort of hint at, the reality doesn't match the words.

> But is it OK to risk punishing a few innocent people if it greatly reduces the amount of suffering caused by crime?

That's a big philosophical question. I argue that no, that's not ok, and I'd rather guilty people go free (and possibly hurt others) than put an innocent person behind bars.

My wife was traveling in Central America last year, and befriended another traveler from a nearby country. This woman told my wife that her country used to be fairly dangerous (both for locals and tourists) due to the proliferation of criminal gangs, but that the current president had mobilized the police/military and aggressively cleaned things up. She mentioned that a large number of innocent people got caught in the crossfire and and were now rotting in jail, but if that was the price of safety for everyone else, she was ok with it.

I had a very visceral negative reaction to this story, and found it disappointing that someone would hold that opinion. But I suppose it's a lot easier to take that stance when it's not you or someone you care about being falsely accused and sent to prison.

So I think that's another way to look at your question: would you be ok going to prison as an innocent person, as a known, understood, and societally-accepted side-effect of a safer society? If the answer is no, then you can't expect anyone else to do it. And even if the answer is yes, that's still a personal decision/opinion, and still can't expect anyone else to do it.

(For the record: hell no, I would not be ok with that.)

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#186

Post by cjbgkagh »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #162
cjbgkagh wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Californian spend on homelessness is public info, you’re free to search it yourself. There is something about seeing drug addicted zombies impossibly contorted in on themselves and swaying in the wind that appears very inhuman to me. If given the choice, pre zombification, of a false confession or life as a zombie I know which I would chose.

That's a false binary. European nations manage without either of them for example.

I think it is that the US is merely ahead of Europe and Europe will catch up to the US in this regard. Just give it 20 to 30 years.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#187

Post by true_religion »

Aurornis wrote: post #130
ninjin wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's frustrating to try to interpret these stories with a lot of writing and video describing everything except the crucial detail about what the charges were for. Is it really a crucial detail though? As someone having lived in Japan for a long time, I see no reason why we can not discuss the fact that civil rights and detention treatment in Japan are lacking without resorting to "Do they deserve it in light of wh…

> Is it really a crucial detail though? Literally the central trigger point of the story. > For the record, I have not watched any video or read anything else about this individual. Nor do I intend to. Then I can see why you're not interested in the details

For most people, the critique of Japan is because their own countries used to operate jails in this way.

So rationalizations of why it’s appropriate because the person was suspected of XYZ isn’t going to land with them and is largely irrelevant.

But I don’t mind playing devils advocate.

Should the justice system force confessions out of murderers? No, because they are only potential murderers and we have historically been able to get innocent parties to confess. People with vulnerability such as mental health problems are even more likely to give false confessions. The goal of requesting testimony should be honesty not compliance.

This logic applies as well the drug dealer, drug users, and jay walkers. It’s a moral principle disconnected from any specific geography so even if we are not Japanese and have no intention to interact with Japan, we can say they have not lived up to that principle.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#188

Post by EMIRELADERO »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #186
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a false binary. European nations manage without either of them for example.

I think it is that the US is merely ahead of Europe and Europe will catch up to the US in this regard. Just give it 20 to 30 years.

Why do you believe mantaining an acceptable level of peacefulness requires torture?

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#189

Post by themadturk »

gravypod wrote: post #90
aloisklink wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author mentions it in a YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2epTf2IW1g (at the 2:20 mark). But essentially, somebody else sent her a package with something illegal in it that she didn't ask for. The police took her passport for a few months and searched her house. After a few months, she got her passport returned to her, she left Japan temporarily, but when she came back, they arrested her "to ensure…

What do you do when you have a bad flu or cold if you don't have pseudoephedrine?

Probably the same thing you do in the states if you have high blood pressure: make do with lesser medications, pain killers, lots of liquids, and push through it.

Re: Getting arrested in Japan

#190

Post by arcfour »

Aurornis wrote: post #130
ninjin wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's frustrating to try to interpret these stories with a lot of writing and video describing everything except the crucial detail about what the charges were for. Is it really a crucial detail though? As someone having lived in Japan for a long time, I see no reason why we can not discuss the fact that civil rights and detention treatment in Japan are lacking without resorting to "Do they deserve it in light of wh…

> Is it really a crucial detail though? Literally the central trigger point of the story. > For the record, I have not watched any video or read anything else about this individual. Nor do I intend to. Then I can see why you're not interested in the details

It doesn't matter though. Nobody should be treated like this, especially not before their guilt has been proven.
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